They are better. And when I pretend to be a hero I don't suffer from bugs either and I'm not limited by anything. Pretending FTW. Let's all pretend we have mithril armor on in Skyrim and say "wow, this game sure has a lot of armor variety!".. Just no..

Good point. I'm going to go make a blanket fort in my living room and pretend it's Solitude.

There simply is a logical limit to being invisble with stealth. Hiding in the crowds. Yes. Hiding behind obstacles. Yes. Hiding in shadows. Yes. Staying out of sight. Yes... It is does things that makes up Stealth. Someone simply cant hide in plain sight with no obstacles and endless light and people looking your direction...
Someelsr said thet stealth is his form of defense... Exactly.. If you were a warrior you'd do anything to get more HP and Armor Rating... But the challenge would be boring once you get infinite HP and become immortal.. Its exactly the same

Exactly,
This is my first character in Heavy Armor and have already noticed a difference in sneaking.

Like I said, it is my defense. I don't use a super armor. I don't invest in enchanting and alchemy to make it super. But I do invest in sneak. Your plan to convince the devs to nerf sneak is hurting the way I want to play. If you think sneak is too powerful then don't put any perk points in it. Nobody is forcing you to become a Stealth Warrior.

I already responded to your post.. It woulc he nice id you reactes to THAT instead of repeating yourself... Read it back.. Im on your side as I too want to use Stealth as my defense.. Please read the previous posts of mine adressed to you anc respond to THAT

(ps I only invested in Stealth in the multilpliers part which has nothing to do with detection)

All I need to do is to close my eyes and suddenly I have a TES game that combines morrowind, oblivion and skyrim. For free. With more weapons and armor and creatures and spells and moves and everything that any game has ever seen before-because I can add anything I want at any time.

When I play a game I don't want to pretend something is happening that isn't. Because pretending I can do all I want, for free, anytime anywhere.

While the stealth is at times pretty unrealistic (i.e. bad guy searching for me and standing right on top of me), it would have to be adjusted in a way to still allow for the non-archer stealth killers too. With those backstab and assassination perks in the one-handed tree, would it still be possible to be a dagger assassin if stealth were tweaked severely?

Dagger assasination was designed to be a high risk/reqard sytem it should be hard to accomplish (you need to remain out of sight while at the same time gettig closet to the enemy by sneaking up behind them) bur once you accomplish this the enemy should ge instantly dead with others not being informed of his dead

In that case keep on sneaking. As long as your 2 points in your OP fail, I am happy with it.

If you start a debate you have to finish it decently instead of ignoring my arguments and going in on a personal attack... Once again I didnt invest in Stealth and agree with you that its a defense... I dont want it nerfed but improved... Stealth should be as rewarding as Magic and Combat but in a different way the it is now

That's the way stealth works in this game.

Combining some realism with some 'magic' makes for more fun gameplay, rather than player dependant skill.

What you're talking about is player dependant skill. While this would be really cool, and some great suggestions for the next game, I doubt it'd make it in because the majority of people don't want a challenge - they want to be invisible when they reach a certain stealth level.

You're fighting against a prevailing opinion.

Thief, as already mentioned, was a really great game - built around the concept of sneaking and stealth as more of a player skill. That's not likely to happen in a TES game.

Why? Because this is the *fifth* one and stealth is still the same.

Doesn't mean we can't dream, just don't get your hopes up and accept reality as it is, so to speak. It's still a fun damn game.

I do not attack you. You raise two points I don't agree with. I have nothing to gain with agreeing with you. You become powerful not by accident. You really have to do a whole lot of sneaking to get there. Don't make that my problem if you don't like where it got you. It's that simple.

Again... You do become invisible by accident.. Since I cant stop my sneak leveling up when i use it... I want to be challenged with stealth but with your way that would mean I have to start a new charactef every 50 hours im in the game which results in the fact that I cant develop through the stories... My way only improves stealth and make it as stealth is defined but just as rewarding mayby even more....

And both 2 things can easily be implented.. The first for surr since they set a boundrey in the scripts for when there is enougj light or not andcthat should be highered..
The second too.. Mayby the 24 mark is harder but well that could be removed and have probably the same effect

That is the idea behind sneaking. The whole skill is set up to become nearly invisible and hard to detect. It's the nature of the beast.

Sneaking is designed for sneaking.. Invisibility spells are designed for invisibility.. Hence the names

It is working as it should be. Sometimes I find it weird that a guy can be literally in front of me, looking directly at me, and says: "Where'd he go?"

But I find no problem in that. It actually allows me to be stealthy. The case above only applies if I'm standing still like a statue, and if I move they'll see me right away. I find that the AI will actually see me if I move in front of them. And people shouldn't see you when you're sneaking behind them. You're at level 84, 16 points away from being the master of sneaking. I actually will find it weird if you get detected all the time.

If you want to be challenged, put on some heavy armor. It helps you to get detected and may save your life when you do get detected

make noise

I see , but what you are looking for , is an increased awareness of the AI depending the level of difficulty , however with the current NPC AI , it's not possible , probably hardcoded .
Maybe when the CK will be out , some modders will try to enhance the AI detection and behaviour depending the level of difficulty , like a larger cone of detection in expert/master difficulty and better reactivity to sounds etc ...

But i suspect it is hardcoded and won't be possible to change that , so in the mean time , the only thing you can do is nerf yourself with self imposed "house" rules , as other posters said , when you "feel " you are detected , you get out of sneak by yourself ...
It's difficult to give another advice ..

Nearly invisible. That's what I said. And it is not as bad as you paint it to be. I still get detected. I still need to cover to make sure the line of sight is broken. I still have to make sure I am somewhere up and hard to reach. I still need to walk backwards and rapid fire arrows to stagger my opponents when they come running towards me. So, no. I will certainly not support your nerfs.

When I play with my stealth character I have some self imposed rules to make it a bit harder. If the area is well lit I only approach enemies from behind and if they turn around and SHOULD have seen me I destealh and let them see me. If I slit one characters through right in front of another character I also destealh. It's not that bad. Most the time I need to stay out of the line of sight anyway tho that might change at higher levels.
But yes I do hope someone releases a mod that tweaks stealth and enemy AI, especially having them search for you longer rather than going right back to eating after having been shot in the head with an arrow.

Or have no perks but even then its too easy.

They don't die by a headshot (or a crotch shot at that), so while I won't use it as a sole argument, I can say that it's a good thing in that it allows you to kill the guy without much fuss.

Although I can say that I know where you're coming, people don't usually shrug off headshot like that, or a corpse which is your comrade a few minutes ago

Perhaps. I've always taken the perk, and is having fun. Never in my wildest dreams can I run up to someone from behind and slit their throat in an Elder Scrolls game, instead of poking their butt

One thing I don't get is that the OP feels sneaking is too easy, but at the same time don't want to play on a harder difficulty setting. I think it is time for me to join a more fun thread. This one makes no sense.

I used to think this was odd, but i rationalised it by thinking that my character was either blending into the walls somehow or playing dead lol.