[Imy Davies]

I'm not comparing it to Zelda mind you, it's rather that I can't say action/adventure is a "lesser" genre, i.e. devolved, than the RPG genre.

I'd argue that the action/adventure that Skyrim is pushing towards is rather devolved, but speaking of the genre as a whole I agree with you.

[Elizabeth Falvey]

I'd argue that the action/adventure that Skyrim is pushing towards is rather devolved, but speaking of the genre as a whole I agree with you.

I wouldn't be surprised if TES VI actually played more like Zelda.

But not as good.

[Donald Richards]

I donno -- it's technically an RPG, but based on the stuff that makes it an RPG, I don't call it a decent one. It's not a good RPG if the world has no consequences especially where it is logical that it would. Sure if I'm simply raiding a fort, it shouldn't change much, but there are several quests that should change the whole game -- yet not only do they not change the world, it seems that no one even notices other than random [censored] guards.

Spoiler

I mean if I kill the emperor in the middle of a civil war, that should change everything. Perhaps change the outcome of the war. Or at least make it harder for people to believe the Imperials have a chance.

Instead, you might hear a guard mention the detail while pretending he's from Fargo. That's rediculous. If a change that big had happened in our world, it would change everything.

[james reed]

Dragon Age Origins better than all three .

Yeah, it's an old-fashioned RPG. "Does 25 + 0.5*SP points of fire damage, and knocks enemies down unless they pass physical resistance check" (Though you need a mod to get that detailed tooltips ). May well be the last of it's kind At least from BioWare.

Still, TES has never even tried to be an RPG like that

I would love to see it's tactics kind of controlling of followers, though. Then they would only be as stupid as my tactics setup for them is

[kat no x]

Skyrim is not a TES style game because TES isn't a genre, Bethesdas development plan seems to be to start from the ground up EVERY SINGLE TIME!

Other than the Arena to Daggerfall changes (which did upgrade the previous game) they have reinvented the TES game.

Morrowind took advantage of new technology and took out a lot of sub par features from DF instead of building on them, Oblivion made an easily appreciated game that (imo) had a bit less mileage than Morrowind but better gameplay. Skyrim is a whole new ballgame just like MW and OB before it, it's a shame Bethesda doesn't build on their past titles but, oh well.

[Sunnii Bebiieh]

I mean I just never stumbled into them or a way to join them in the game. Maybe Morrowind needs Skyrim way of forcing faction quests.

They never went after you but would if u offd one of their head people, then all the tong npcs atkd ya..well they did iny game. Now the dark brother keeps sending hits out ya sporaticly when ur reating or sleeping, but other than that havent gotten there yet to find out whats up other than someones sending a hit on me and all the vuards are telling me to get away from them and make aure my will is in order lol.

[Chris Johnston]

Skyrim is not a TES style game because TES isn't a genre, Bethesdas development plan seems to be to start from the ground up EVERY SINGLE TIME!

Except with Fallout, that is (latest TES) with guns

Prove me wrong, Bethesda!

[Your Mum]

Why does it feel like this thread is one huge circlejerk of people who think Skyrim isnt an RPG and a bad TES?

Cus honestly, I cant see this turning out to be any more productive.

[Emily Jeffs]

Why does it feel like this thread is one huge circlejerk of people who think Skyrim isnt an RPG and a bad TES?

Cus honestly, I cant see this turning out to be any more productive.

That post isn't prodcutive at all.

[Suzy Santana]

That post isn't prodcutive at all.

Nor is yours and yet you still posted it.

[Rachael]

Nor is yours and yet you still posted it.

Circular logic is often a circle.

You wanted to stand out and tell people they aren't being productive... while you yourself weren't being productive.

[Jah Allen]

Why does it feel like this thread is one huge circlejerk of people who think Skyrim isnt an RPG and a bad TES?

Because we're actually sitting in a room together, in a circle and...

Oh, I mean... I think these threads, particularly the later half of the first and the early half of the second produced a lot of interesting ideas and clarifications. This is important for several reasons.

1)For those of us who don't appreciate the direction of the Elder Scrolls series this helps us put our thoughts down, hone are arguments against people who disagree, and hopefully come off stronger because of it. I know the other people in these threads have influenced my arguments for the better. Hopefully I've done the same for other people's arguments, both for and against my side.

2)There are also people who don't have an opinion, or are uninformed about the argument. They take it for granted "Well of course Skyrim is an RPG, everyone says it is. It sold really well, so it's definitely a great TES game". Hopefully by reading these threads it will challenge their previous realities and make them actually think about it, and persuade them to one camp or the other. As I said in one of the earlier threads I don't go into these discussions to persuade the people arguing against me, I'm persuading the silent people who are watching and forming new opinions.

[Alyce Argabright]

Thing is though, Skyrim did well sale wise because people thought they were getting something as good as Oblivion or Morrowind or even better. But instead they took a few giant steps back when it came to development and writing in Skyrim. We were tricked into buying the game. Sure some of didn't like some of the changes, but we didn't think that it would be this type of game either. We thought better of the game and it turned out bad.

Now I will expect the next TES game to be worse and I won't buy it. I returned Dragon Age 2 because it was horsecrap. I as a buyer I can choose and vote for what I want from the industry.

[CArla HOlbert]

Thing is though, Skyrim did well sale wise because people thought they were getting something as good as Oblivion or Morrowind or even better. But instead they took a few giant steps back when it came to development and writing in Skyrim. We were tricked into buying the game. Sure some of didn't like some of the changes, but we didn't think that it would be this type of game either. We thought better of the game and it turned out bad.

Now I will expect the next TES game to be worse and I won't buy it. I returned Dragon Age 2 because it was horsecrap. I as a buyer I can choose and vote for what I want from the industry.

No, Skyrim sold well because it is an action game and action games generally are better received by the mainstream audiences.

[Vicki Gunn]

No, Skyrim sold well because it is an action game and action games generally are better received by the mainstream audiences.

Well that's part of it. But I was talking as my experience as a TES fan the reason why I bought it.

[Nick Pryce]

Well that's part of it. But I was talking as my experience as a TES fan the reason why I bought it.

The fans who have been playing the game since Morrowind or earlier and forum goers like us only make up a tiny fraction of who actually buys the game.

[Marcia Renton]

I'm actually very worried about the direction of TES in the future after what's been done to Skyrim. Hopefully next gen can make some huge strides but I'm not optimistic. We might see a more dumbed down version of Skyrim, if that's even possible.

[Milad Hajipour]

Wow, I go out for a few hours and the thread explodes. Someone catch me up, I'm too preoccupied to read through the last 5 pages... including those in the last thread.

[TIhIsmc L Griot]

The fans who have been playing the game since Morrowind or earlier and forum goers like us only make up a tiny fraction of who actually buys the game.

The majority you are talking about will buy the game more or less on the reviews and/or marketing.

TES could have been the posterboy of the Morrowind style RPG, they had a launching pad and chose to release Oblivion instead, although it was a great game it wasn't a sequel to Morrowind.

[chloe hampson]

World truths:

-These types of threads will continue to pop up
-Skyrim will continue to be an RPG

There's nothing left to contribute to this thread. People have asked, and I have provided, reasons why Skyrim is an RPG, but they just want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend it doesn't exist, because they want to live in their RP-elitist fantasy world.

Meanwhile, you all bicker, but I don't work tomorrow, so I'm going to stay up playing that awesome role playing game called Skyrim.

[jodie]

so I'm going to stay up playing that awesome roleplaying game called Skyrim.

Fixed bro.

No really though, I haven't been posting today but I think we've tried to answer all of your points rather than 'sticking our fingers in our ears'.

[Bambi]

World truths:

-These types of threads will continue to pop up
-Skyrim will continue to be an RPG

There's nothing left to contribute to this thread. People have asked, and I have provided, reasons why Skyrim is an RPG, but they just want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend it doesn't exist, because they want to live in their RP-elitist fantasy world.

Meanwhile, you all bicker, but I don't work tomorrow, so I'm going to stay up playing that awesome role playing game called Skyrim.

Skyrim is a great game, one of the best. It doesn't have to be a RPG to be great and I think your selling it short by insisting it is.
I don't think I'm an elitist just because I don't think Skyrim is the same type of game as Daggerfall or Morrowind (or even Oblivion), that doesn't mean I don't enjoy it or think I am awesome for playing RPGs. Why are you so offended that people are saying it isn't an RPG? It really doesn't affect how great a game it is?

[Jade Payton]

Skyrim is a great game, one of the best. It doesn't have to be a RPG to be great and I think your selling it short by insisting it is.
I don't think I'm an elitist just because I don't think Skyrim is the same type of game as Daggerfall or Morrowind (or even Oblivion), that doesn't mean I don't enjoy it or think I am awesome for playing RPGs. Why are you so offended that people are saying it isn't an RPG? It really doesn't affect how great a game it is?

Probably the same reason that people are so insistent to make sure that it isn't called an RPG - even though the entire gaming industry classifies it as such.

Why are people so up in arms about the fact that I classify Skyrim as an RPG, and classify it as an incredible one at that?

I don't see how one could even possibly say that it's not the same type of game as Morrowind or Oblivion - it is the same damn foundation that made those other 2 games. It is an open world RPG, that's designed around the player's development of their character moreso than the story, and allowing the player to make whatever choices they want in the game world.

I've explained why I either believe Skyrim is more in depth than previous games, or why it still remains an RPG, or why Attributes aren't the be all end all of RPG's, and all I've been met with is that any game can be called an RPG if you use your imagination, or that I'm wrong for how I view Skyrim, or -blatant lies- like saying that the effects of Attributes from past games aren't in Skyrim, when they blatantly are, when there are perks that do the exact same thing as Attributes.

It's incredibly frustrating, it feels like I'm slamming my head into a brick wall. The anti-Skyrim is an RPG crowd ask for our reasons why we say it is, and then when we give them, they completely dismiss them. What is the point of asking for a discussion when you don't want to hear the answers?

[Haley Cooper]

Probably the same reason that people are so insistent to make sure that it isn't called an RPG - even though the entire gaming industry classifies it as such.

I've explained why I either believe Skyrim is more in depth than previous games, or why it still remains an RPG, or why Attributes aren't the be all end all of RPG's, and all I've been met with is that any game can be called an RPG if you use your imagination, or that I'm wrong for how I view Skyrim, or -blatant lies- like saying that the effects of Attributes from past games aren't in Skyrim, when they blatantly are, when there are perks that do the exact same thing as Attributes.

The more imagination I have to use to replace game features, the worse of an RPG it is.

I don't see how one could even possibly say that it's not the same type of game as Morrowind or Oblivion - it is the same damn foundation that made those other 2 games. It is an open world RPG, that's designed around the player's development of their character moreso than the story, and allowing the player to make whatever choices they want in the game world.

So then Minecraft is the same type of game as Morrowind as well?

It's incredibly frustrating, it feels like I'm slamming my head into a brick wall. The anti-Skyrim is an RPG crowd ask for our reasons why we say it is, and then when we give them, they completely dismiss them. What is the point of asking for a discussion when you don't want to hear the answers?

In the most rudimentary form it is an RPG, but it is a pretty crappy one. A great game but a crappy RPG. It has all but static NPCs, no way of measuring character progress in skills other than perks, the level and the loot.

Why are people so up in arms about the fact that I classify Skyrim as an RPG, and classify it as an incredible one at that?

Maybe because you have also argued that games like Minecraft are RPGs if you use your imagination. It's tantamount to arguing that reading a choose your own adventure novel imagining your playing a game is an RPG.

[Jordan Fletcher]

Probably the same reason that people are so insistent to make sure that it isn't called an RPG - even though the entire gaming industry classifies it as such.

Why are people so up in arms about the fact that I classify Skyrim as an RPG, and classify it as an incredible one at that? [...]

It's incredibly frustrating, it feels like I'm slamming my head into a brick wall. The anti-Skyrim is an RPG crowd ask for our reasons why we say it is, and then when we give them, they completely dismiss them. What is the point of asking for a discussion when you don't want to hear the answers?

Disagreement is not the same as dismissing you. No one really cares if you call Skyrim an RPG, and you're making a mistake if you think anything in this thread is supposed to be personal. I actually give you credit for coming back and trying to defend your positions time and again.

I don't see how one could even possibly say that it's not the same type of game as Morrowind or Oblivion - it is the same damn foundation that made those other 2 games. It is an open world RPG, that's designed around the player's development of their character moreso than the story, and allowing the player to make whatever choices they want in the game world.

If you don't 'see' how Skyrim is a fundamentally different game then certainly Morrowind and probably Oblivion then there's something you've missed. The games are very different, virtually no one would dispute that. They seem similar. They have similar controls, mechanics, and a shared common denominator of lore. But if TES III: Morrowind was just called "Morrowind" and TES V: Skyrim was just called "Skyrim", and there was no shared common ancestry granted by the title at the beginning of each game's name, I would argue that you would only think Morrowind and Skyrim had at best a cursory, coincidental resemblance.

Our whole 'problem' with Skyrim is that it lacks exactly the things that you just listed. It's open, but not as open as Morrowind. You can develop your character (kind of) but not as much as Morrowind. You can make choices, but less of them, and less meaningful (or interesting?) choices. If you disagree with everything I've said in the last two sentences then I respect your opinion, but it explains how you just don't 'see it' the way we do.