Have Beth design the open world, dungeons and art design. Obsidian does the rest. In a perfect world that happens, sadly we don't live in a perfect world and we just have Skyrim for what it is. A great game but a terrible shallow RPG and it's also terrible when compared to the previous Elder Scrolls.

Obsidian is dying, they'd better take the best people on board @ Bethesda

like all the elements that could possibly be labeled 'rpg' mechanics. all of the false rationales that say these rpg mechanics are hidden within the perks and m/h/s. not only are they NOT in them, even if they tried, they wouldn't replace CORE rpg mechanics.

i don't feel like getting into another argument along these lines, but, skyrim obviously lacks core 'classic rpg' mechanics.

skyrim is a fun roleplaying sim that gives you lots of things to do and see.

my personal rules i create for my strict DiD games have more core rpg mechanics in them than the actual game.

when someone plays new vegas it should be absolutely clear that it contains some very important core rpg mechanics that fallout3 doesn't come close to having.

only the blatant apologist can deny it.

New Vegas was RPG first, open world second, whch is why it's world design was poorer than in Beth's games.

Skyrim is open world first, RPG.... well, RPGs are too spreadsheety, let's cut it off.

That likely won't happen. Given Skyrim's size and amount of NPCs, it would take much longer to develop a spin-off game with NV's depth, dialogue and choices.

Results

FONV was more RPG and deeper than FO3, also had a much better story

KOTOR II was deeper, more RPG and had better gameplay and story than KOTOR 1 (except for the chopped ending)

Obsidian before they got destroyed, got results. On INSULTINGLY SHORT timelines given to them.

They basically got hosed over a 1pt Metacritic score re: FONV.


Also, to whoever said Skyrim wasn't buggy... i mean WHAT??

I dont want anyone besides Bethesda only, to work on the TES series.


But I do want Obsidian to create a whole new rpg series set in medieval times. Open world or not.

If anyone other than Bethesda comes out with a TES, I''ll cry

for years

i love to see another person realize how dominant kotor2 was over the first. i don't use nostalgia arguments ever, except, for the kotor2 vs 1 debate.

i try and go replay kotor and can't get off freakin taris. it is a boring crapfest.

i replayed kotor2 every year it was released until just a couple years ago. and, that was only due to all the great new 360 games.

KOTOR II's story is worse then KOTOR1 and the characters are worse. Everything else though, I agree especially the gameplay.

Perhaps. I agree, Obsidian does certain things (like quests & quest structure) better. But they do "world" worse.

I play different games for different things. I don't expect the same from a Beth game, or a Bioware game, or a JRPG. I know that they have different strengths, weaknesses, and focuses. I know this going into them, so I don't get disappointed when I play, say, a Beth game and don't get Bioware-style character interactions. And I'm fine with different games being different - I think the whole "I wish X's games were more like Y, because I like game mechanic Z" is a stupid argument - I wouldn't want everything to be the same, variety's a nice thing to have.

And like I said - maybe that's part of why I was disappointed by FO:NV. Incorrect expectations - I went into it thinking that it would be Beth/FO3-style open world exploration. Instead I got something different.... Obsidian's semi-linear, complex-quest-web, faction thing. Set in a much less open and exploration-friendly world that just happened to use the same engine as FO3. So yeah, some of it is the fault of having false expectations. But I still don't enjoy the game, at a basic level, as much as FO3. And it still wasn't a game "in the Beth style".


I expect Obsidian doing a TES game would end up kind of like Oblivion running one of those "level via XP" mods.... kind of a generic fantasy RPG that has the trappings of another series. (i.e, Obsidian could make a fantasy RPG with Beth's "level by using skills" mechanic.... but it could be any random RPG, it wouldn't be a Beth/TES game. So why not make up their own original setting?)

kiralyn-

your post did a great job of showing the difference between those aspects of tes games that you like and, i agree, they excel at.

the true open world that you can explore with a multitude of pc's is their calling card. however, they used to also include more rpg mechanics.

i guess, i want it all, seriously. i want a hardcoe rpg-character based game that requires thought, management and depth and has all the fluff trappings, as well.

especially, when i don't see any reason not too and when their own past games included more 'hardcoe' elements. i expect greatness from tes. not 'streamlined and accessible.' not less.

Crafting, cooking, weapon design/mods is just one area Skyrim: New Vegas by Obsidian could really add something to the game.

Obsidian also seemed to nail balance a little better and Perks were handled in a more complex way than FO3

Listen FO3, Oblivion, Skyrim, all great stuff. I played each of them for hours on end.

But what makes FONV so great is it's NOT just FO3 - Vegas. It's actually a very different game, different structure, different gameplay, balance, quests, story everything.

Imagine Skyrim that had a more strict, and lengthy faction/quest system that all interlinked and made you really choose? Thieves vs. Mages... instead of being king of all guilds? Imagine a Skyrim where there were FONV style Dragons/Deathclaws that didn't scale down to your level but just ate you for lunch until you got strong enough.

Imagine 20+ different weapon types, spell crafting, deeper enchanting etc...

Just something different, using Skyrim base tech.

I was just wondering which features made it an RPG for you.

For me it's mostly the interaction with other characters, which is superficial at best. I would love waaaay more dialogue options and better personalities for NPCs.

I've added a few mods that add the need for hunger/thirst/sleep and also heat/cold exposure. That helps a bit in that I have to consider my character's well being all the time, consider what I actually eat, take time out of my day to cook, etc., and I also have to wear appropriate clothing. I wish those things had been included by Beth so it would be more streamlined and fit better into the game than those mods do, but it's a step in the right direction.

I guess more consequence of my action and better NPCs would be my biggest wishes at this point. FONV was slightly better in that respect, but not to a point where I felt it added to the RPG feel.

Stories are debatable, as to which one you like more, or which characters you prefer over others. But ..dude, CARTH? (KOTOR1) Jolee?

They certainly do interesting RPG's better. Would be nice to add that sweetness into the 'Bethesda game' recipe.

The Irony is of course Fallout 3 is LESS like Fallout games than Fallout New Vegas. So imagine the expectations of Fallout 1, 2 players going into FO3 and getting Oblivion with Guns instead of a Fallout game

Again, I loved FO3 but I went in knowing it would not be like Fallout 1. Others felt robbed.

Okay I don't hate skyrim i played 137 hours in it and 323 hours in NV.. Skyrim was just well BORING.. the story is boring.. the game play is boring.... the world is boring ( for the exception of black reach ) Skyrim could of been much better.. But after oblivion and fallout 3 i should of realized all they can do is craft a world with a pretty [censored] story-line.. There was no complexity to any of the characters.. hell i only beat the main story-line once because i got sick of being Dovakinn..... 3 hours after i started the game. Fallout New Vegas had the most interesting story ever published by Bethesda although dagger falls's story does intrigue me at least what i read of it in the in-game books. I really hope Fallout 4 is developed by Obsidian if not... well at least i have Wasteland 2.

Dunno if they're dying or not, but that scenario would certainly be the culmination of my highest hopes for a better TES gaming future.

I have no clue what exactly the argument is here since I have not played any Fallouts,
but you no touch me TES D:

Oh gawd I disagree. New vegas was great mechanic and engine wise (An improvement over Fo3 at least), but the stories, people, places, quests, and all that were absolute garbage. The main quest went so many directions that I stopped caring and lost interest. I understand that they want more talking, but some quests were 100% talking, and the dialogue wasn't very good, so I lost interest.

Not to mention half the quests were just time sinks. Like the outpost in the SW. The lady says 'Go look at the town', you walk to town, go inside, objective complete, walk back. Cool? It had little to no purpose other than waste the players time.

I did not like New Vegas at all and very quickly got bored of it, the only fun part were the improved gun mechanics. I don't really want Obsidian touching our Elder Scrolls.

But we all have our opinions, dont we?

I wouldn't say the design is poorer, NV just had to work with an antique, ugly, crappy old game/graphics engine from way back in the dark ages of the past decade.

for me, your last line hits it right out of the park: consequence to YOUR (pc) action. a world that revolves and evolves around your in-game decisions. as a counterpoint, i'll say that mass effect story, dialogue and 'choice/consequence' is horrid rpg material for me. talk about a lack of advancement and innovative gameplay. good/bad, left/right. characters and story, in and of themselves, mean nothing to me, as far as, rpg-mechanics is concerned.

those should be staple parts of every game.

it's becoming very clear that this rpg genre has been divided absolutely with skyrim. we have fps/action-adventure games that are very light rpg's and we have rpg-character based games. i want depth, complexity, difficulty, management, evolving worlds around my pc AND good graphics and other fluff.

great mechanics vs story, quests and people. lol!

i'll take mechanics everyday.

they actually, you know, effect the gameplay.

it's this simple: any game can have great mechanics AND add the fluff. a game without great mechanics can have great fluff and never be a great game.

hyperbole for emphasis.