While I enjoy games that have the hard class systems, like many of the Final Fantasy games, WoW, etc, I do believe Skyrim should have a "soft" class system and soft limitation system of its own.

Currently there is no limitation system save for the player, and unfortunately in some areas I feel that is very bad because it goes against the narrative of the game as well as the environment it is putting you in. In effect, Skyrim is an "anyone can be all that they can or want to be," which is fine, per say, but at the end of the day does thin out the differences between choices like races, perks, skills, etc.

I don't believe, for Skyrim, in the "only High Elves can be X Mages" or "only Orcs can be tanky Warriors," not at all, but nor do I believe that a High Elf should be able to completely equal an Orc in the job of a tanky Warrior; what I do believe in is adding "soft" limitations.

What do I mean by "soft" limitation?

Well, currently we have racial abilities and racial traits, correct? Orcs get Berserk and get a base boost to skill levels.

Currently, and again using the Orc as an example, Berserk is a once a day ability, meaning that you won't be using it all that often and since you won't be using it all that often you actually aren't all that different from a High Elf Warrior. Also the initial bonuses to skills can be negated through time and effort, a player with a High Elf can eventually become the exact same Warrior, skill level wise, as an Orc.

Now, that does not mean to say a High Elf should have their Heavy Armor skill capped at like 75 instead of 100, not at all.

What a "soft" limitation would be is that the Orc would also get some additional racial bonuses outside of what they currently get, basically a means to prompt the player to know that being a Warrior is what an Orc is really good at, but not limited to.

For instance, if you gave Orcs the racial trait of bonus physical damage with melee weapons based on how much Health they are missing, which would prompt a player to the idea of taking their Orc the "tank" route so they can soak up damage to deal more damage. And this would be a constant effect, not just the once a day.

You could then, if you wish to make it more deep and complex, add this principle to the various skill paths and perks.

For instance, Orcs get the base level bonus to Heavy Armor, so instead of starting with say 15 Heavy Armor they now start with 20. We could add a special racial trait to the overall skill that does something like +5% extra exp to all stats when wearing full Heavy Armor. Then for specific perks, say for instance the +20% Armor, add in the racial trait of when wearing full Heavy Armor and Health is below 30% gain +X Armor.

A "soft" limitation won't hinder a High Elf from becoming a Warrior and won't hinder an Orc from becoming a Mage, but it will in the end place one race above all others in that races' "best" field of play, according to lore, if the player so chooses to select a race based on the archetype they wish to create, or vice versa.

Thoughts?

Interesting, but not too powerful of bonuses

No, not too powerful, but enough so that when looking at all the end game archetype builds for each race you can see clear differences between them all.

What if there was a racial perk tree, so let's say every 5 levels the abilities would scale with you...

I've written something like that too but rather for Health, Stamina and Magicka rather than race.

I would like the races to be distinct instead of they can all be the same. Their racial bonuses could be more of them and they should have different stats for sure. We should still be able to make an Orc mage but would they really be as powerful naturally as an Altmer or Breton mage. I get what the OP is saying and I like the general idea.

Good thing about this proposed system is you don't need to return to the old stat system (though I rather it did).

I would rather it did as well. Attributes and perks with what you propose would be great for diversity and the three things could work together for even more replay value.

If created properly you could actually allow players to take the racial traits and put them to use for archetypes that the race isn't really well known for.

Say you take one of the races that are known for Stamina (that usually would have gotten a bonus to Stamina of some kind) and you give them something like gain X damage for every X% of Stamina you have.

You could then turn what should have been an Archer or Thief archetype race into a DPS Warrior by overloading their Stamina.

Or you could diversify it out to something a little less straight forward and something a bit more branched out to allow for more diversity such as:

Orc Racial Trait Knowledge of the Hammer
Due to Orc's natural affinity towards smithing their battle prowess has become heightened when wearing gear of various design. When wearing Light Armor, Orcs gain a small bonus to Health Regeneration due to having to train themselves how to endure pain easier when blows land, when wearing Heavy Armor, Orcs gain a small bonus to weapon damage due to having trained to learn how to put their entire armored weight behind an attack.

Yes if you knew how to and you could use a warrior like buff to get a mage out of a jam, something boost physical defense somehow, the possibilities would be great and again it would add much needed diversity to what we have within the game.

Not to mention such traits as:

Natural Shadow
Your skin is grey, the night is dark, during the hours of nighttime when outside of any building or structure Dark Elves gain +5 to Stealth.

Magical Defiance
?As a Breton you are highly resistant to magic and while you have a natural resistance to it, a trained Breton can harness the power used against them as a means of re-cooperation.Regain % of magic damage taken to your Magicka pool based on your total Magicka.

Those are two excellent ideas for sure and the Dunmer trait you mention is a very logical sentiment to be sure.

Nords could have "sound of war" to give a boost to himself and any bear by companions and so on.

Or how about "Ice Harness" any frost cast at them can be absorbed and either stamina or magic, or while they are in the snow they get a plus ten to heavy armor or defense.

So many possibilities.

I don't agree. Games moving away from racial bonuses pertinent to combat is a good thing imo. I think Races in a single player RPG are a visual and backstory choice for the player. I would argue that anyone who wants to excel at something should be able to with the necessary work and dedication. If I'm a Bosmer I may find it easy to level my Archery to 100, but if I'm an Orc I should still be able to match the skill of a Bosmer, but it may take me more work. The Bosmer should never be able to achieve a greater skill simply because of race.

Every race should be able to be the best at whatever skill they wish to put the effort into. It may be easy or difficult depending on race, but it should always be possible.

Race equals cultural and visual variety, not a set of limitations.

I hate being pidgin holed into anything and love the way skyrim works as is. There are so many games that arbitrarily limit character classes that its a breath of fresh air when this one doesn't. To me its a way for the developer to artificially boost replayability by making it so that if you want to play as a mage and an orc for instance you have to play through the game twice because an orc mage would be gimped.

Except nearly all current racial bonuses are battle related.

And, where exactly do I talk about limiting any race in my proposal?


Again, where do I ever say races should be limited?

This.

I'll just say that I'm glad that I have 3 games (Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim) that don't follow this formula, because I'd rather not have it.

I began playing (and ultimately fell in love with) Elder Scrolls games because it stepped away from arbitrary race and class restrictions, and allowed you to play anything you could imagine, race and class wise.

I have to ask if you even read what I wrote.

In no way, no way do I restrict any race from being what they want to be. I never say "only High Elves can be X type of Mage."

There are no restrictions in what I have said. This is simply expanding on the already present "predisposed" notion of races that is, again already present, on character creation. High Elves will always get the +50 Magicka and their once a day. A High Elf getting an additional bonus of something like +% Magicka Regen based on X does not limit a High Elf to being just a Mage anymore than gaining the +50 Magicka does.

You really should go out and make your own game, rather than coming here after the fact and try to make Skyrim fit your perception as to what a game should be.

Not everyone knows how to program for a game. But he presented a good suggestion and people should be able to have a good, constructive discussion about this.

I can see your point, but I don’t see the need for additional limitations. The game allows me to limit myself, without impacting anyone else’s game. That’s how I like it.

I know that a lot of players like the game to define their roles. I prefer to do that part myself.

The whole suggestion goes against what Skyrim was striving for. None of the racial abilities and powers are significant, they just provide flavor. What you're asking for is a step back in the direction that Skyrim headed for.

That's basicly what it was in Daggerfall. I found it a lot of fun to play against type, and see how well a character could do--have a tanky Orc be a mage, for example. I really miss that--it made me feel like I was playing with something real.

How would giving an Orc a bit more melee damage go against what Skyrim was striving for? You still would have total freedom.

Srsly, racial powers and abilities weren't that important in Oblivion as well, but they made a bigger difference and gently pushed you into a direction. A bit more distinct racial abilities like the ones from Altmer/Bretons for the other races would be fine in my book.

If you start specializing races towards certain archetypes you are going against what Skyrim was striving for. What the OP describes is having different races being better at certain archetypes at the end game instead of every race being capable of becoming whatever they choose to be.

^ I may have misinterpreted, but I felt what you were getting at was to make race an issue in the choice of class?

Currently we first choose a race, gender and appearance based on what we feel suits us in a fictional context for the character we wish to play. Then secondly we choose how the character will behave which determines what they will excel at, and how they will deal with the challenges of quests and combat (a class or archetype). Your proposition seems to be essentially condensing these 2 choices we make down to 1.



Racials are not exactly something that can be incorporated into a combat strategy. They are more like character dressing. You said yourself: "using the Orc as an example, Berserk is a once a day ability, meaning that you won't be using it all that often".

if you make one race the "best" at something, then you are limiting all other races from being the best at it. Min-maxers would be in MMO heaven, knowing they just need to roll an Orc if they want to tank - oh, sorry, I mean role play a warrior.

Adding more options or more depth is always cool, but there must be a way (skill trees/perk points) to integrate it rather than tying it to the player's choice of race?