As far as stats, combat/dungeon gameplay, character build, and end-game is concerned, yes. As far as everything else, it's not.

RIng of Fire protection + 1

Awesome... so 90% of the game which race I pick is meaningless.

You're not helping your angle here.

How am I not helping my angle? It's a role-playing game. Picking a race in Skyrim is about identity, background, and aesthetics. Abrinth could probably elaborate further on that.

You keep saying this, but this is not the issue. The issue is between 2 of the same archetype, but different races.



I'll give you that Altmer can have more Magicka in a min-max build than anyone else. I guess it could be considered an end game advantage, but I've never thought of it as significant - this is just my opinion.
As for Racials like the Dunmer Fire Resist - this is not significant at all. It caps at 100%, and any race can have access to 100% Fire Resist if they want it.

The race you choose determines what you look like, what NPCs will say to you, and how they treat you, what your cultural history is, etc... it is not meaningless. It probably has more impact on how you feel playing, and how the game responds to you as the choice between playing a male and a female.

Bolded parts:

I played my Khajiit to level 35 and visited every major city and various small towns.

Not a single guard or NPC was suspicious of me, despite in lore and the narrative in the game, people are naturally wary of Khajiit because they are notorious thieves and smugglers.

Not one person stopped me and says "who are you... you're not with the merchants are you?"

Sorry, race has little impact.

Italicized part:
Yes, any race can have 100% Fire Resist. But while everyone else is building up to get to at least 50% to match the Dunmer, the Dunmer can spend enchantments or potions elsewhere.

Congrats, you figured out that the game in particular doesn't respond very differently to different race choices. You so smart. Anyhow, role-playing isn't all done by the game, sometimes a person fills in the blanks. Have you taken the time to see any role-playing Lets Plays? You could learn a thing or two.

In addition, if you're going to argue that 50% Fire Resist is significant in the end game then I don't think you have the appropriate knowledge to even be participating in this conversation.

Okay, @Darkside Eric. Let's recap to make our points. (I've thoroughly enjoyed your topic, btw. Really good discussion).

What exactly are the differences you want from Skyrim as it is now, at end game?

If you want races to be so distinctive from one another that it makes a strategic difference to game play at end game I am passionately against this. If one race clearly makes a better warrior at end game than another (like more skill or stats), then I don't believe this is in keeping with the spirit of free choice I'm used to in TES games.

Why are you wanting changes to races, and not to something like just skill sets in general, say?

Sorry but race choice is pretty meaningless. There's a couple of NPCs that will have a different greeting depending on your race but aside from that you'll just get the same standard crappy greeting. NPCs dont treat you any differently and tbh when your in your armour you could be any race, after making so many characters i will often load up a save and have to check (or just not care) what race I am. Unless i have a tail of course. You're just some humanoid race covered in armour basically, it's irrelevant what race you actually are.

At the moment race really does mean nothing unless you keep reminding yourself of the characters back story and trying to roleplay it. If NPCs truly reacted differently depending on the race it'd be a different story, but they don't.

Then we are going to disagree time and again on this, because you view it as a "half empty," a one race being naturally better means other races can't choose to follow what they want to be, where as I see it as "half full," because I wish the game to be optimized between race and archetype of a player decides to pursue the archetype attached to the race of their selection. You see "well it's not fair that a High Elf can't be as good as an Orc as a Warrior," whereas I see that's how it's supposed to be because that's why races were given archetype bonuses in the first place.

I offer the change to races (I've done changes to skills as well) because I feel it's the easier way to go rather than evaluating every skill and creating one, or a handful, of different bonus that could be applied to all races.



Bolded part: Correct, but when the game breaks its own narrative, it's kind of a problem. I roll a Khajiit the same way I roll a Drow in Dungeons & Dragons, I know and expect to get flak for my racial choice because that's how the narrative of the game world works. When the game world goes against the way it says it's supposed to work that hurts immersion.

Having any kind of Resistance is relevant end game when you are facing off against opposition that uses what you are resistant to and can, at times and often, mean life or death for your character. That's why people build full Magic Resist armors.

I would agree that they may as well be meaningless, in terms of character development. Look at it this way...there are really no game breaking racial abilities. Sure, some of the passive ones are nice, but it's nothing quaffing a fairly low level potion can't replicate.

I guess it's a role play thing, but this is an RPG... I roll a Dunmer, and I have a long history and affiliation with being Dunmer. When I am running around I am conscious of being a member of my 'team'. I've never played an Orc, cos I'm not an Orc. Lemme just tell you the Nerevarine was a Dunmer, the Champion of Cyrodiil was a Dunmer, and the Dragonborn is a Dunmer...



I'm grateful that games are evolving away from the segregated, Asperger's world of DnD. It has it's place when you feel like playing it, but I prefer playing TES games. Equal opportunity for everyone, I say.

Then don't give us a narrative that suggests races are segregated.

I was referring to gameplay stats not lore. DnD needed all of their little boxes and categories to wall off the choices of individual players, to make those choices diverse and meaningful. It's a multiplayer game...

You're just reiterating what I stated. Skyrim doesn't quite have the best reactions or story differences for gender and race choices. I'm not disputing that. Messing with stats in this regard won't change that.

Furthermore, I wasn't disputing whether or not resistances are important. I was disputing that if you're going to argue that a 50% Fire Resistance racial bonus is significant in the end game, then I don't think you have the appropriate knowledge to even be participating in this conversation.

No messing with the stats won't change that but it will expand the races out in the matters of stats, archetypes, etc, the part of the game where those things matter.

The Dunmer trait was an example of how one race is better end game than another. A Dunmer, if it desires, only has to build an additional 50% to have 100% and then can focus elsewhere; other races have to build the full 100%.

Expand races out in the matter of stats, archetypes, etc.? Golly gee whiz, don't you think that Bethesda is purposefully straying away from that? If it isn't painfully obvious to you with Skyrim, then maybe you'll never understand.

And you still fail to understand that it's not in the least bit significant. At all. Have you even reached the end game? Do you have a level 81 character? Do you know the ins and outs of the game mechanics? Different builds? How they all function and work in the end game?

With all due respect, it appears as though your end game knowledge is severely lacking for you to think that 50% Fire Resistance racial bonus is SIGNIFICANT in the end game. It's not. Stop pretending that it is.

That's the whole point of this thing, that racial differences aren't significant during the course and at the end of the game, making them meaningless.

So you're trying to argue that they are significant and now you're flip flopping and saying that they're not significant ever. Okay. In any case, you say meaningless and I say flavor.

What was the whole point in the OP? To expand on the differences between races for end game because clearly there are no differences.

You say flavor, I'm actually talking game mechanics.

Clearly you don't understand that Skyrim is not headed in that direction. Clearly you don't understand that Bethesda, and some forum members, don't particularly agree with your notions.

In addition, there's no significant differences between races @ the end game on purpose. It's by design, not error.

Wow, man you're still at it?

The game mechanics you're fighting against are deliberate and intended. I suspect messing with said game mechanics would be against the ethos of the vanilla game. Mod your game and play that way, but don't expect every other TES player to want to play that way.

Clearly you can't see that said direction is one myself and others on this forum aren't happy about. Clearly you aren't aware that if the public does not like something they will voice it. While this is not a "BioWare change your ending nao!" this is a discussion, or is supposed to be, about how the current direction is not one that people enjoy.

And perhaps clearly you have not seen the other threads that have questioned things like the removal of attributes, spell making, etc.

Clearly people aren't happy, same way people clearly weren't happy with the changes made from Dragon Age to Dragon Age 2.

I feel for you if you aren't happy playing Skyrim. I have been disappointed in the direction game franchises I have loved have gone in the past. I sometimes despair at the general attitude some companies have that gamers are 14 year old boys with attention span problems. And I despair at the disappearance of niche market games in favor of mass market casual games... I hope you are planning on getting into the business and creating the games you want to play, because other than that you should be prepared to have minimal impact. As a consumer, the most constructive thing you can do is not purchase the product, or if you already have, then post negative reviews of it. *shrug*

I am already in school for it and have already worked in the industry.