I like the limited amount of perks, as it encourages me to play another "class" after the first playthrough, which provides the game with better longlivity, giving me "more" content for money

This is actually the one thing I don't particularly like about the perk system. I use a mod to eliminate perk prerequisites. For me, that one change makes all the difference. The perk system is a lot more logical and a lot more enjoyable without prerequisites.

As Pseron Wyrd said, it allows us to specialize, and means people cannot make an uber character. The only problem I have is with the skills, where I can't see what skills I have chosen sometimes.

Wait, now character limitations, the exact thing classes, attributes and other fun things people miss did, is a bad thing now?

And no, classes did not stop you from becoming a master of everything, nor did attributes. perks actually limit you more. I mean, if you want to be a master destruction mage, yet you've spent your perks on enchanting, no wonder you'll svck at casting spells.

Levelling up should yield 2 perk points instead of one. It would balance the game out a LOT more, and it wouldn't be overpowered.

How would that balance the game? People are already finding it a bit too easy after hitting level 25.

The word "balance" generally implies that it will make the game enough of a challenge, while still keeping it fun. Adding more perks would just make the game easier.

the problem many of you seem to be disregarding or overlooking is the fact that these so-called 'master' perks don't actually add any power to your character that is significant.

no, i won't get all the perks in all the magic schools. however, i can get all the ones that i need that will make me the most powerful.

many of the perks and skills are useless and only needed for rping. they won't add any significant value to the overall strength to your character.

my hybrid at levels 15-20 on master was much more powerful than my specialists during the same period. and, it wasn't due to my skill. it was due to a smart selection of the best perks and skill increases.

I'm not you, but I can not image enjoying this game with a 80th level character, let alone one that's even higher level. I actually love restarting and doing a whole new Role-Play. I can justify that my Daedra worshiping Dunmer assassin is played differently than my Nord Stormcloak warrior, or my Orc barbarian. I couldn't do all that with just one character.


I need to find that mod. While I can see how some perks would build upon one another, there are too many that clearly don't. For example having my archer being able to pick the Sneak perk for archer damage without the backstab one saves me from wasting a perk on a PC that never uses a dagger.

Here's the one I used: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=1943 by ClassicalNoodle.

I don't especially like the perk system, but have no problems with the limits. It would be nice if there more choices in the gameplay that were actually choices.

Level a character to 100 in Illusion with no perks. Then try a character who takes all the perks in Illusion. There's a massive difference.

I agree that some perks (like damage increase, etc.) seem like placeholders, but there isn't a single tree where taking high-level perks won't make a significant difference in gameplay.

i like the perk system, but, there should be many more that actually add to the gameplay.

with the current selection of perks and skills, even if we got 2 perks per level our characters would NOT have a significant increase in power.

one can make the most powerful character possible by levels 50-60 with smart choices.

You can be the master of a few skills or a jack of all trades but master of none. An option to be the master of all skills unlocking all perks is not something I would want. From an RPG perspective a person would pick a trade of some kind then spend a life time trying to master it. Looking at in that way only having a limited number of perks to use fits well.

yes, the gameplay would be different. that's not what i said.

i'm talking about the relative power differences. there is very little substantial increases.

i've done all the rping specialized character types that i want to do.

being a jack of all trades but master of none? ok. but, my well-designed hybrid is more powerful than any of my "master" specialists.

why? the flaw in the skills and perks.

Was I not talking about power increases?

Someone who has fully perked Illusion can calm a Draugr Deathlord. Someone with fully perked Alteration can take massive amounts of physical and magical damage. An assassin who doesn't perk stealth will stop getting one-shot kills after level 10.

The list goes on. The difference in gameplay is precisely because your character becomes more powerful through perks.

I liked the idea of perks in theory. In effect starting out with a homogenized character in the beginning and becoming more specialized over time as they level. However, in execution it feels like it missed the mark. I hope Bethesda keeps exploring this new method on their next TES game but make it different from Skyrim's. It doesn't feel finished in it's execution.

Yes, the system is completely flawed if you think that creating a character who is a walking god is "beating" the game.

you are talking about the different power levels associated with specific skills.

i'm talking about powerleveling and making the most powerful character possible. being able to calm a deathlord is gameplay. me defeating a deathlord quicker and easier than your specialist is power.

lol!

of course, i never said that at all, but, oh well.

the system is flawed due to the irrelevant/redundant skills and perks.

are you actually going to argue that someone who wants to become a god in a rpg is playing wrong?

Let's see... how WOULD it balance the game?

First off, it isn't overpowered. From level 1-81, you can max MAYBE 3 and a half classes by getting every perk affiliated with that class. With 2 perk points, there's a substantial increase, but without being overpowered.

I could max Heavy Armor, Destruction, and Blocking with full perk points, which is sort of a good 'goal' to have when using a Spell-Sword character. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to, which would limit me.

I know spending points on things like Blacksmithing, and Lockpicking would be less helpful than that of spending the points on combat-related inquiries, but WHO doesn't like variety in a video game?


I don't want my character to be full-blown combat-oriented. I want my character to have a little variety with the other skills you can do ingame. The only problem is that if I DO that sort of thing, then I ruin my combat-experience.

Let's face it. It's UNDERpowered, and maybe that alone is an understatement. I want to skill in the game, but I also don't want to get torn apart by enemies. There's not a lot of variety that Bethesda is offering.

Now you explain to me. Unless you are a stubborn and die-hard combat person, then what part of what I just suggested makes the game too easy? If it's too easy for you, then it generally implies that you only care about combat, which can't make a valid counter-argument. There's too much variety.

I have to disagree, some of the perks in that tree are awsome. I never really paid attention to the Speech skill in previous TES titles nor in Skyrim initially, however my current build is a bit of a merchant and i've maxed out that tree, in terms of trading i can now shift so much gear in one visit to a city due to being able to sell any item to any vendor (including my wifey), and the high cash float each vendor has means i can rake in the cash. I now have sets of armour and weapons for each of my favorite followers and have purchased a few properties. Oh and bribing guards is very handy.

I think overall the Perk system is good and definitely a better levelling system than previous titles. You really have allot of character build choices as a result.

I think it's always difficult to implement new systems in an established game and there are teething issues with this one but, it's a step in the right direction and by the time we get TES: VI it will be very balanced and very effective, but it's down to to us to provide that feedback constructively and in a non-biased fasion. The chances are that the devs at beth are just as frustrated with the flaws in this game as we are, maybe even more so. It's a learning curve for them.

I really do enjoy this game and think it's a work of art on every level depite it's flaws.

feel the new perk system is way better then previous games simply because it is no longer possible to become a master in every art by simply learning a skill. Previous TES games have suffered under the fact that attributes and skill have made each character at endgame similar to eachother, why starta thief if you already have a mage at endlevel who can simply put a new outfit on and be just as good at sneaking and backstabbing as the best thief in the game?

The perk system and no classes was the right move for Bethesda, finally I can make a thief that is a thief and a mage that is a mage and those 2 characters will be totally different to play.

Completely agree. IMO Skyrim has a greater replay value than Oblivion.


Once I get up to level 25-30 (which takes about 150-200 hundred hours of playing time), I've noticed combat starts to become too easy, even on Master difficulty, so I retire that character and start a new one. I've found this to be true for quite varied builds including archer/stealth/dual wield, 2-handed barbarian and pure mage, without using crafting exploits.

Can't imagine playing all the way to level 50 or higher when I'm already feeling overpowered at level 25.