Headshots with a boy are tough. The torso has less bone protection and there are more vital organs to hit rather than attempting to piece plate steel armoured heads.

get all the damage perks for ranged attacks including the ones in sneak then you'll not only vitually be impossible for the enemy to find but you will mostly be one shorting everything. One of my friends played a assassin with daggers and with all the insane perks he could sneak one shot whole dungeons and not be seen. HE could even sneak crit dragons with dagger and kill it with one shot.

So I seem to be hearing a lot of the same things.

1. Better gear/skill will in time make most things a one hit kill.
I guess I don't think one shotting everyting at level one makes sense, but I also don't think you should have to be a god before that starts happening.

2. Location damage is what should happen, not insta kills.
I definitely agree with this, I wasn't really being very reasonable with saying everything should be a one hit kill. Getting hit in the foot obviously never killed anyone outright. Location damage is indeed what I want, getting shot in the head or chest should have a very high chance of a kill.

3. One shotting dragons, giants, mammoths, etc would be stupid.
Yes, I know. I said in the original post that I'm not talking about large creatures that could obviously withstand much more damage than humans.

No. It shouldn't. UNLESS locational damage is in play OR the type of armor actually counts OR arrows do a specific kind of damage that ignores armor (as in piercing).

First, thanks for all the comments that included the "porcupine" word, I almost died laughing... No kidding...

Replying to the original post. The problem with this game is that there are not body part differences when talking about damage and health. Also, character skill doesn't make a difference when aiming at something, as fas as I know. Player skill does.

If you want it realistic (I do), a guy should not die (no matter how many times you hit him with an arrow), as long as you hit in his hands and/or arms. No one dies with that. Maybe take a "bleed" effect for some time, which could end up in death it hit many, many times...

I once killed a bandit with a piercing in his ear. I think I took a screenshot but I'm not able to find it right now. It was pretty funny... the usual careful sneak, arrow in the head, instakill.... and when I went there the arrow was just a perfect earring. I'm not screaming "bug" and asking this to be fixed. It was ... well... a "headshot"... but as I see it, my shot should have been considered a failure. Shots in arms or legs should barely damage the victim. Shots in brain area should be instakill, and shots in chest should be serious damage. Of course, "heart" area should be instakill too.

But here we come again with the player / character skill problem. You can't rely on player skill for things like these, or the game wouldn't be fun or challenging at all. I could start a new character, archer, and go around insta-killing anything, just becase I know how to use a bow as a player, and because game considers some body-parts as instakill or high damage. In my opinion, skill should affect aim. So, my arrows should fly randomly either to where I have my pointer, or somewhere near, based on my skill in archery. The higher the skill, higher the chances to put the arrow where I have the pointer. At skill 30 it would be desperating, yes, but it would be more challenging ... I'm supposed to be a novice archer, so why hit things just because I'm pointing the mouse correctly?

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that, even if I agree that archery needs a bit more of realism, it would also need a change on how the aim is managed, to make it fun and challenging.

Maybe if there was locational damage and you got a headshot on an unarmored head, sure. If they were going to go really in depth, armor would have a hardness value and arrows would need to penetrate to do damage at all.

Look at how many arrows Boromir took in Lord of the Rings before he finally went down, and how many Orcs he killed with all those arrows sticking out of him. Now think how boring that scene would have been if he went down on the first shot. That's the one example that popped in my head on reading this topic. It would just be too easy and uninteresting if every enemy could be killed so easily from a sneaky shot.

Lurtz wasn't crouching!

Yes that is exactly what an already overpowered stealth system needs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4tIUqzjJeQ

'Nuff said.

im fine with taht working on humanoid npc's, tho some revisions since you want this assassination realism of yours.

if the target has head armor, especially heavy head armor...there should be a decent chance of htem not dying, but merely being stunned/pissed off.

npc's will know your general direciton when you make the shot just because of hte direction the arrow came from, they will NOT stop searching for you just because they didnt find you for 1 min. and they will use light sources like torches and such to find you. resulting in almost always you only getting one stealth shot...unless of course that npc was far enough from his friends that it wouldnt register for them.

now you get your 1 shot kill, and still have to figh the other 3 incoming

You gotta admit that was one nasty looking arrow though. ha ha

Awesome. I really can't stand that guy screaming all the time. Good thing someone shut him up, and with style.

then the game will be lame

I think a shot to the head should at least incapacitate if not kill. It makes no sense for a character to come rushing after you immediately after getting hit with an arrow not even flinching.

Look at it this way: You can't be a one shot sniper-assassin with a BB gun. Or even a 22. But, effectively, hunting bows and long bows are fairly short range, low powered weapons. The presumption of more damage from "better" bows, is more power, better design, longer range. Arrow design would be factored as well. Now, the expert professional assassin can still put a 22 through an eye or carotid, ending it (iron arrow/long bow). You missed the carotid, the instant kill, you put your arrow in a muscle, from too far away for your "puny" skills. My first character was a sniper and by level 50 I could just about one-shot a giant.

Bowhunter here.

It's actually very challenging to kill something in one shot, even an unarmored deer, struck in the torso. Even when you manage to get them in the lungs, you're going to have about a minute to wait for them to drown in their own blood before they die. Headshots do not work any better: it's just too difficult to penetrate the skull and do any meaningful damage to the brain. About the only way to get an "instant" kill is to get them directly in the heart or neck, cutting off bloodflow to the brain. Really, the only way arrows kill is by bleeding the target, it's not like bullets which create massive damage due to impact and fragmentation.

Now, to kill a man in armor, armor which presumably covers their heart, would take quite a bit more. Hitting a major artery helps, but that's as much luck as it is skill... and is represented adequately by a "critical hit".

IMO, as it exists, the archery system is realistic enough. My first change would be to remove the "must have been my imagination" and "must have been the wind" dialogue from enemies that have actually been hit by arrows.

I use a bow about 95% of the time and most of my attacks are insta-kills. I have a good bow enchanted, use the best arrows and wear a hood and ring that is enchanted for extra archer %. I can take a bandit stronghold quite quickly.

I could argue that cutting someone in the neck with the sword should also always give insta kills, but this isn't a realistic game. This is an RPG where numbers dictate success.

I don't think it should be an automatic kill everytime or even most of the time but i do think if your in a really good hiding spot that you should remain undetected even after the shot...but i can understand your frustration.

Ahem.

It`s never a good idea to use fantasy to explain realistic effects from arrows.

If Boromir had been hit by arrows of that size (they were huge compared to normal, real arrows) he would not be swinging at anything. He should`ve been simply stunned by the first one that hit him square on and fallen on the floor from that one alone. The other two would`ve had him on the ground if it not out-right kill him. I was amazed that he was still up after 3 !

Seriously.

The fact he still managed to keep fighting was just for cinematic sequences. No man would`ve kept going after taking that from arrows as huge as in LOTR..

You just have bad hiding skills or stands too near. I can play pin cushion on non-flying enemies and they can't find me at all. With fireballs no less.

If you mod the ini file to increase range at which targets can be hit, then as long as your aim is true, you will stay stealthed if you are far enough away.

As for the OP's complaint: I think the real issue is that there is no location based damage yet. Mods will find a way to make it work, just as they did in previous TES games. But in the meantime, stop sniping guards in heavy armor with your lowbie archer and expecting epic Legolas-like results. Also, high level poison is devastating, and Paralysis poison is devastating even at low levels.

Good response.

This, I agree with...I like the fact the fact that sometimes the sneak attack is not a one shot kill and the fact that you never when it will not be successful. It makes combat interesting. On the flip side I have experienced points where sneak attacks have been a little ridiculous.

Sneak attacks with Assassin's Blade however are unstoppable...