This biding their time argument is weak. No nation ever won a war by letting the enemy stage operations in your country and tell your citizens how they may live. The empire can never build up faster than the Thalmor with the terms of that treaty in force.

It isn't a fair price to pay. Mede sold out the other provinces so he could keep his home. It was a terrible idea. The empire lost its identity after Martin died. It stopped being for the good of the empire and turned into for the good of the emperor. The banning of Talos is what allowed Alduin to awaken.



People keep taking the concordat of the great war as meaning the empire was still under attack. This is wrong.


This tells us the thalmor had no soldiers left to fight the empire, unless they decided to abandon Hammerfall(Which still beat their force with only 1/3 of a legion force being there. The imperial city had 1.5 legions)

Mede panicked. He had Lord Naarifin as a captive, the entirety of the thalmor attack force crushed, and he panicked. He accepted the terms of surrender without a single objection. After the battle of red ring, the thalmor must have been completely relieved that Mede gave up.

I'm not saying Mede should have pressed onwards and taken the fight to the thalmor right away. That would have been disastrous too. The past 30 years could have happened the same way without the concordat, and the empire would still be together, and there wouldn't be thalmor spies able to run about the empire and report back on military strengths like they're doing now.

I have a vague feeling there are plenty of historical examples (especially in medieval Europe) of nations fighting to an inconclusive stage, going away for a time and then returning for another go.

And that would be true if the terms of the treaty include something about the forces the Empire can develop (under the treaty General the Empire can't build siege weaponry or forge glass armor). Saying "Stop worshiping this" doesn't seem an obvious weakening, especially when the Empire doesn't actually enforce the law, except when civil wars break out over it (and when there is a knock on effect - presumably Mede wouldn't have agreed on that point if he had know it would bring dragons back)..

+1

Talos is the Hero of us all ! All true sons of Skyrim should join the rebellion !! [censored] those Thalmor ! The empire surrendered by the Elves ! --'

Yeah !

Look at you, in the beggining of the game the Legion were about to execute you ! If you go to Solitude you'll see the legion executing a man..

Empire surrendered for the Thalmor !!

I'm in the exact same position as you nearly I just don't know who to join. Everything is screaming at me though to join the stormcloaks its just the racist nonsense that putting me of.

The way I see it is when Martin Septum died in oblivion that was the last true emperor. The guy that's in charge now and any other replacement are just opportunistic usurpers making a grab for power they just dont have dragon blood. Not only that but the empire doesn't really exist any more look at this map.

[img]http://klibank.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/map.png[/img]

Look at that Morrwind is completely crippled, Elsewhere, Blackmarsh and Hammerfell are or on there own sort of , Valenwood has been conquered and Cyrodyll has been completely trashed.

Ideally what I'd like to happen is to join the stormcloaks and kick the fake empire to the curb. Then become the head guy like you do when you join most factions. Then go on the rampage Tiber septum style and reconquer Tamerial and kick the cr@p out of the elven supremist along the way. Then when all is said and done take my rightful place as the emperor as I'm the only one with dragon blood.

lol fingers crossed the DLC can be THAT good.

+1

Agreed.

and don't forget that the Empire surrendered to the Thalmor and forbid the worship of Talos !

The Empire may not be noble anymore but they'll be back.
I'm facing the same decision as the OP and from the comments here believe when they have enough power they can take on the Thalmor with the other provinces under one banner. Once the Thalmor are out of the way THEN the Empire should dissolve and only then should Ulfric fight for the throne.
The current Emperor seems weak but I think he still knows he has to stop the Thalmor and that's what's important.

I used to think like this, but then... no just kidding.

But really, i used to think like this, but then i realised that it could take so long, i can't stand the Thalmor.

Titus II Is anything but WEAK...During the sacking of the imperial city He massacred elves with GoldBrand! And the way he acts at the last quest during the Db Quest line...

credit to bethesda for layering the story so there is no clear cut answer. each side is very flawed and one has to make some unsavory concessions for the greater good.

i love the idea of the poster above, drive the fake empire out, and then take the fight to the elves and become emperor myself. the dragonborn cannot be stopped. this is clearly the best option for all nations.

i don't see any strong evidence the empire can stand up to the thalmor; the empire is corrupt and all the empire's representatives in skyrim are doing much more harm than the stormcloaks racist tendencies. and the empire is caving in to every and any thalmor whim. giving the thalmor gestapo free reign is reason for war on it's own.

but there is no real evidence the stormcloaks will ally with other nations to help against the thalmor. if ulfric wins i see them becoming extremely isolationist which would be detrimental to the other nations.

an independant skyrim would be extremely difficult to conquer given the terrain and people. the thalmor would have to commit massive forces and resources and endure massive casualties to conquer skyrim. once skyrim is independant and the nords aren't threatened by the prosepect of losing their identity, i see the racism subsiding and more integration.

skyrim has the dragonborn, easily defended territory, and giants that will knock those pointy ears into space. what's there to fear? i vote independant skyrim!

The way Tullius tells the Thalmor to keep her mouth shut I can tell he's acting reluctantly under orders. Ulfric in my eyes is power hungry, a racist, and a hypocrite. After finding out about the underlying plans of the Thalmor it makes me want to fight for the Empire to keep it as strong as possible.

Go Legion. Maintain peace and prosperity across Tamriel, encourage trade, tolerance and multiculturalism, and act as the only possible bulwark against the Aldmeri Dominion and thus be the last, best hope for man in Tamriel against the imminent threat of Thalmor genocide.

Or, go Stormcloak, and serve a regicidal usurper who, in his lust for the throne, is prepared to subject his own people to suffering and exploits the controversy of the White Gold Concordat to further his own agenda, start a civil war and weaken the Empire when it must be at its strongest to face the common threat of Alinor, generally gambling the future of Tamriel because he wants to play braveheart and be High King when he has no right to do so.

One thing I have wondered is: have imperials lose their understanding on diplomacy? I mean in the time of the empires glory slavery was banned in the empire, but because slavery was important part of Dunmer culture and tradition they had right to have slavery in Morrowind. Why empire isn't giving such a right for Skyrim to have Talos worshiping even it's banned in the empire? Talos is more important tradition for Nords than slavery have ever been for Dunmer. I believe Imperials are wise enough to understand that only way to keep Skyrim as a part of the empire is to give Nords right to have Talos worshiping. This situation tells me only one thing: Imperials decided to have a civil war with Nords to make sure Thalmor is not attacking again soon.

Technically, the civil war that was started by Ulfric due to the banning of Talos is not the cause of Alduin's reawakening, but merely a milestone in time that marks the return of Alduin. During the main quest, you learn that the war heralded the event, not caused it.


Indeed! Mede is a hoss, perhaps not to the degree that the Septim lineage was, but close. He's definitely worthy of being the Emperor.

This. The Empire is basically biding it's time to consolidate it's resources and regroup before either defending itself from another Thalmor attack, or going on the offensive and liberating Valenwood and Summerset from the Thalmor regime. There's a lot of evidence that the Thalmor are unwelcome in both lands, although they obviously have significant support, enough to rally an army large and skilled enough to fight the Empire to a standstill and force their terms in the White-Gold Concordat. Every Thalmor in the game presents themselves as the most extreme personification of stereotypical Altmer arrogance and sense of self-superiority. I've met Altmer in the game that take issue with that, including an Altmer Legate somewhere near Riften. Makes you wonder if the Empire has as many spies and agents in Aldmeri territory as the Thalmor have in Empire territory, undermining their rule and setting up their leaders to fall.

The real enemy is the Thalmor, Ulfric wants to separate the human population by setting up an only Nord kingdom, which will only leave the world divided. The Legion does not discriminate race, and has many races working in its ranks, Redguard, Imperials, Bretons, and Nords. Basically, what the Stormcloaks will do if they win, if provide an isolated country, that is cut off from the rest of the world, which will prove difficult to get rid of the Thalmor when the time comes, instead of joining forces with the Empire, and becoming a united force against the Thalmor. The Empire had no choice but to surrender to the Thalmor and sign a peace treaty, as there was no way they could win the war at that time, but like others have said, they are biding their time, and when the time comes, they will rid the Thalmor for good.

The execution part in the beginning is all because of just one person really, so do not place your judgement of the Imperial Legion so quickly.

The Empire had no problem with Talos worship. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure the General in the game worships Talos. Also, without the Empires help, Skyrim will fall.

The answer is simple. You're a Nord. Viva la revelution! Support Ulfric and take back Skyrim for the Nords.

Ulfric doesn't want to allow a failing empire's politics to dominate nordish society and it's customs. He has shown that he means business, he struck down the high king in his own court, He openly admits that he will start a war with the Thalmor, this guy is not to be [censored] with and with the Aldmeri armies in ruin from the Great War Ulfric will show the Thalmor that their witchery has come to a bloody end.

It's time for the Nords to make a name for themselves without the Empire. Remember that the Nords are the only people who have been ever able to successfully land and occupy Dunmer soil through military force.

They are all dead in my playthrough.

But we still have TGM!!!!!

I support both sides, but I went with the Empire. A divided Empire will be easy pickings for the Thalmor.

If only F:NV's factions were this morally gray

For those that say skyrim needs the empire to defeat the thalmor, I say, "why?" Skyrim is protected on three sides by mountains, and the fourth by sea. If skyrim can become united under a single, self-sufficient flag, then they may be able to not only defend their land, but also even fight a war of attrition against the Aldmeri Dominon. This could inspire other nations, such as Cyrodiil, to rebel.

Both are fine, whatever people might tell you is "like... their opinion, man". Just stick with one, you can always replay the game to try the other. Ask yourself, what would your character do?