That's not politicking so much not wanting to bother with things outside your concern.

It's like if some people I knew wanted me to help break someone out of rehab. They'll piss and moan and try to guilt me, like I'm some jerk for not wanting to bother with it.. even if it was an acquaintence. Except Tullius has even less incentive than me in that situation. You expect him to free a Stormcloak. How many people have you broken out of places? It's a pain in the ass. Even moreso I imagine in a war, and you're trying to juggle two hostile sides.

I didn't say he had to free him- he could take him into imperial custody. The empire is supposed to be a bastion of civilization, right? Does its laws include letting the enemy torture imperial citizens?

And the Thalmor say they'll free him if the empire requests it. No breaking and entering required, just a note saying "turn this man over to us."

I've never tried it, but I think the quest might be bugged. I wonder why they would put the diplomatic option there, but then giving it no chance to work, under any conditions.

It's not bugged, but like Blood on the Ice you do have to think outside the box and do some prior planning. Obviously I only did the bloodless way once, going in with Avulstein and co. and cleaning house is WAY too satisfying.

I tried everything on my imperial playthrough. I had assumed it was bugged, too. What do you have to do to get the Thalmor to release him?

Apparently, console commands only do it. I wonder if there's actual voice recordings of Thalmor actors saying something about it. Then it would be bugged.

I find it hilarious that even though the Stormcloak supporters are mainly Thalmor haters, Ulfric is the reason the Thalmor further involved themselves in Skyrim. I'm going to show a few points.

1. Ulfric does not get enough credit for killing Torygg. He faced the high king in honorable combat, and killed him. Most of the witnesses refused to believe this.
2. In my honest opinion, I think all of the Jarls who support Ulfric are [censored]s. Laila is a selfish and corrupt leader, controlled by her steward. Skald has an ENORMOUS chip on his shoulder, and goes so far as to almost not allow a former Imperial into his city. The Jarl in charge of Winterhold makes false accusations against the College and sways his citizens to dislike the College of Winterhold as much as he does.
3. I prefer the Jarls who support the Empire. Balgruuf>Vignar, simply because I liked his character throughout the story. Maven>Laila because my character is in the Thieves' guild, so it benefits them to have Maven on the throne. Not to mention, she was always in charge. Her title as Jarl is just "A formality".
4. People don't give Igmund enough credit. The reason he wants to keep the Forsworn threat in secret is because he doesn't want his city to turn to chaos, have people leaving left in right in terror, etc, etc. Instead, he has the Dragonborn deal with it. He doesn't want his citizens thrown into dismay.
5. If you don't like the Emperor, you can just 6. If you don't like having Thalmor officials in the holds, you can 7. Balgruuf hates the Thalmor just as much as Ulfric/Vignar do.
I have a few Stormcloak characters and a few Empire supporters. But overall, I think I like the Empire's ideals more. (Although I don't really think Elisif will make a good leader at all. I think Falk or Balgruuf would make a better high king, although I know that wouldn't happen.)

And what makes you think they wouldn't have anyway? They were going to have to sooner or later, and it's not like the empire ever denies them anything they want.

What I find hilarious are comments from the imperial soldiers that the empire are the ones keeping the Dominion out of Skryim.

It was the Jarl of Markarth's fault the Dominion came to purge Talos worship. He promised Ulfric (and Igmund uses the word "we", suggesting the Empire was involved. The Reachmen stable owner seems to think it was the Empire) free worship of Talos in exchange for retaking the Reach.

Ulfric was their ticket to involve themselves in Skyrim more and they knew it from the start. They were in contact with him following the Great War, and they used him to orchestrate the Markarth Incident and later civil war. Yes he's currently considered uncooperative, but they're still convinced that direct contact is a possibility.

Actually, there was Talos worship in Skyrim before Ulfric, and presumably there were Thalmor spies as well (I dont think that embassy was built due to the civil war). They didnt need Ulfric to enter Skyrim.

But it was the Markarth Incident and Stormcloaks rebellion that supposedly gave them the excuse to crack down harder and make a bigger fuss about it.

Edit: Which of course, we know that the Thalmor were behind.

We don't really "know" they were behind it. Only that Ulfric's handlers try to take credit for it.

They secretly take credit because they were secretly behind it.

That's the sort of conspiracy theory that's really fun!

*shrug* It doesn't really matter. Not like the imperials didn't have their own reasons to take back a literal gold mine they lost during the war. You don't mean to suggest they wouldn't have tried to take back Markarth if not for the Thalmor?

I joined the Imperial Legion. In the end, they will be better for Skyrim. The Stormcloaks are prejudice against other races and Ulfric seems like he is just trying to be High King, not fighting for his country. The Legion is not prejudice against anyone and has always been a positive force. Even though they try to kill you in the beginning.

I think it likely the Empire was pursuing other options... They don't much care if a Nord or Breton rules the Reach and they've repeatedly made pragmatic deals with the new leaders when old ones are incapable of keeping their throne. Maybe no peace was possible and the legion would have shown up to deal death.

I certainly find rich irony in the people who join the Stormcloaks because "Skyrim belongs to the Nords" while failing to see the staggering hypocrisy of Ulfric seizing Markarth from the Reachmen that have lived there since before the Nords came to Skyrim.

-Starcrunch

"What I find hilarious are comments from the imperial soldiers that the empire are the ones keeping the Dominion out of Skryim."

HA I know right?

"We have our army on the border preventing an invasion of the Aldmeri Dominion! We're keeping you safe!"

*Lets Thalmor cross over to arrest, imprison, torture, and kill anyone suspected of worshiping Talos*

I guess if you worship a particular deity, you're not under that umbrella "citizens of skyrim" by whom the Imperials protect. Even more funny how so many Imperial hierarchy secretly worship Talos while they condemn their fellow man to the Aldmeri to save their own skin.

The Imperials aren't condemning anyone for Talos worship. They're pretty much universally looking the other way. Given the terms of the treaty, it's the most they can do for the time being. Nobody ever reported Jarl Balgruuf or High King Torygg or Roggvir or Legate Rikke even Heimskr for Talos worship. The Jarl of Markarth was actually able to prevent the Thalmor from arresting somebody in the city because they had insufficient proof that the guy worships Talos.

Balgruuf worshiped in secret and up until the civil war campaign his city is neutral territory. Legate rikke same thing, worshiped in secret. Roggvir was eventually executed when he was exposed as an aid to Ulfric and thus a talos worshiper as well. The Thalmor certainly weren't about to arrest high king torygg either, since he was also a tool of the Empire. They don't just look the other way. Imperial soldiers will kill freed Talos worshipers. Several Imperial priests have wiped clean that Talos is a Divine, and in "The Talos mistake" an Imperial liaison pretty much says "The Aldmeri are right, you shouldn't worship Talos, we should be friends with the Thalmor". By the simple act of allowing them free reign in the country, they are condemning people. General Tulius knows what goes on at NorthWatch Keep, the secret Thalmor prison. During Missing In Action you also find out the captured Gray Mane son wasn't even a Stormcloak.

Roggvir's execution had nothing to do with his Talos worship, it had to do with defying Imperial Law and allowing a civil war to start. A civil war that I might add turned out to be a part of not one but two separate plots to destroy the world. Similarly, the Imperial soldiers attack the Talos worshipers not because they worship Talos but because they're Stormcloaks.

During Missing in Action it is said by Thorald's brother that the guy was fighting for the Stormcloaks. Dialogue and the Missive actually seems to suggest that Thorald was captured by the Imperials while fighting for the Stormcloaks, then taken by the Thalmor, likely because of his clan connections.

As for agreeing to the Concordat, I feel people are too quick to condemn the Imperials. It was necessary to save the Empire. Hammerfell wasn't let go as a sacrifice, it was let go because it refused to agree to the terms, thus threatening to keep the war going. As for the allegations that the Imperials favor Cyrodiil over the othe provinces, they're no different from the Stormcloaks: they'd probably be fully content to let Cyrodiil get taken over by the Thalmor if it meant being able to worship Talos in Skyrim. I certainly didn't see Skyrim suffering in the Great War. And at the same time, if the Thalor felt the Concordat was sufficient, they wouldn't have brought about a civil war in the first place.

The Forsworn aren't Bretons. And if you think they would let the imperials retake the city, you must have played a different game.
No more hypocritical than it is for imperial supporters, especially considering that Igmund is an imperial man.

I said Roggvir was executed when he was an exposed Ulfric stormcloak supporter. His talos worship wasn't well documented before then so why would the Thalmor have arrested him? There's 2 kinds of prisoners, stormcloaks and talos worshipers. They are distinct and not one and the same, but Imperial soldiers will kill either if they are freed.And from what I recounted from the quest on 2 chracters, no, he wasn't part of the Stormcloaks. http://5.hidemyass.com/ip-1/encoded/Oi8vZWxkZXJzY3JvbGxzLndpa2lhLmNvbS93aWtpL1Rob3JhbGRfR3JheS1NYW5lXg%3D%3D He fell in with the Stormcloak ranks after he was freed so he could better escape the Thalmor. Anyone can argue survival vs slavery for the white-gold any day and all day. What I'm saying though is that the Imperials are not keeping the Aldmeri out of Skyrim, and whether they are happy about it or not, they are in bed with them.Despite what Imperial soldiers/officors/and Jarls say otherwise.

J'rahzir understands this question well. Does one join the Tall Hairy One with the Vivid Fondness for Blue... Or the Short Loyal Imperial bound by duty. J'rahzir does not think the Imperial will allow Khajiit into the cities. Nor does he think the Imperial are better than the Tall Hairy One. The Tall Hairy One is often VILIFIED and FEARED but... but one can not help but ask why he does such things and learn why he does such things. Khajiit has heard the Tall Hairy One fought a war before and was given this... Talos. Then the Elf type found out of Talos and they arrested the Tall Hairy One. The Tall Hairy One's father died when he was imprisoned, and perhaps this fueled his anger. A boat of anger shall sail best upon the sea of tears.

However, he is still as sinful as those who oppressed the Tall Hairy One. He sets himself to find a home amongst the sea of tears, and this home is the throne of the Nord known as Torygg. Or Two-Greg, not too sure. Khajiit finds gossip difficult when listening through stone walls. Two-Greg respected the Tall Hairy One. Khajiit knows this. If Tall Hairy One had asked him, the Two-Greg would have complied. However, Tall Hairy One challenged Two-Greg to honorable duel. This is why Skyrim suffers as it does. Khajiit does not suffer because honor is simply a trap for Khajiit. Tall Hairy One played by rules, yet the Nord who side with Two-Greg still call it honor. The Nord contradicts, but J'rahzir escapes the topic. Tall Hairy One is brave, yes. Tall Hairy One is smart, yes. Tall Hairy One is a good leader, yes. Yet, at the same time... He is cowardly. He is foolish. He is unable to lead. The Tall Hairy One is not all of what all says. If he were, he would not be Tall Hairy One but Tall Hairy Many. There are those who fight for the Tall Hairy One yet disagrees. If One wishes to fight for his ideas, One would be granted such ideas after victory. The Nord have their needs, which is the Talos, and the Tall Hairy One has his needs, which is Two-Greg's throne.

On the side of Two-Greg's throne sits the Short Loyal Imperial, nearby and ready. He is a fighter, no doubt, but more importantly one is a strategist. He is wise and patient, if not also arrogant. The Short Loyal Imperial is a good man, no doubt... But he supports the Two-Greg's wife. If a mason suffered a fatal mason related death, then his wife should be the new mason? This is not how such things work... Or does it? For who leads Skyrim, realm of forest and cold and sands like no other... is it really different from the Tall Hairy One? Khajiit does not think Skyrim will become Morrowind. Nor does he think the land will become Cyrodiil. Land is land, the only thing that may change will be the people, yes? Will the Nord arise with the sun as Breton? No, but perhaps ideals may change."

Should the land become Imperial, nothing shall change. If the land become Nord, then little will change. It is time to measure the difference between milk and cheese in the eyes of J'rahzir. Personally, J'rahzir prefers the cheese, for the cheese treats the Dunmer just right. *sly grin*