It seems being easier for them wasn't sufficient. As for taking credit, they never openly took credit for the civil war, but they did in secret. Likewise, if bringing back the moons was a hoax, the mention that they didn't is probably mentioned in some similarly secret documents in Alinor. They wouldn't lie to themselves. Or at least not to the higher-ups.

Because bureaucrats would never lie to their bosses? huhuhu

I doubt they would, but it's possible they'd lie to the low-ranked grunts. There's a theory going around that only the higher-ups in the Thalmor, who would include whoever wrote the Thalmor dossiers, are aware of the plan to undo the world, while the low-ranked soldiers and Dominion citizens only believe that the Thalmor are simply forcing elven superiority and the beliefs it encompasses on the rest of the world. The upper-ranked ones probably wouldn't lie to each other, at least not about important details about how their plans are brought about.

Yes, I am sure that Tullius will request that the Thalmor release a Stormcloak prisoner.

He isn't a stormcloak soldier.

But he was wearing a Stormcloak uniform. If he wasn't with the Stormcloaks he shouldn't have been wearing it in the first place.
The empire is suspicious enough if you're even near some Stormcloaks. I wouldn't be surprised if they treated him as a rebel.

I.... don't remember that he ever had a Stormcloak uniform. In the Keep, he's just in rags - and there's no Stormcloak uniform bits laying about. You never see him in Whiterun at all, so you can't say at that point. And when he says he can't go back to Whiterun, he then says he guesses he'll join the Stormcloaks. So whyever the Thalmor grabbed him, I don't think he was "really" a Stormcloak. A sympathizer probably, but not the real deal at whatever point they grabbed him.

He's not a Stormcloak. After you free him, he says he's going to join the Stormcloaks because it's not safe for him to go home.

And he's wearing http://images.wikia.com/elderscrolls/images/b/bb/Thorald_Gray-Mane.jpg, not a uniform. Just like the dovahkiin at the beginning of the game, coincidentally. Tullius doesn't care if a few innocent Nords get tortured or executed. All in a day's work.

After reading through all the posts since my last post, Celan seems to make a very, very valid argument. I re-thought out my Dunmer Characters thought processes and philosophy, and have come to the conclusion that the Stormcloaks themselves are not racist, as an organization. It's the individuals, and certain individuals, who are the racists. It's just like the real life. One should not blame an entire organization simply because one random guy says some dumb stuff in a drunken stupor.

As for the Empire, it is dying and rather in a long slow drawn out way. Ulfric sees that the only way to get out of the Empire right now, is to rebel and wake up the people of Skyrim to this fact. The Empire is in no way able to aid the provinces in either a war or natural disaster, ie Morrowind. Basically, (I believe it's the 4th Legion) the 4th Legion in Skyrim is a "show of force" unit to try and enforce Imperial Law, watch the Thalmor, and stop insurrection. It simply cannot do it. The entire Imperial military is spread beyond thin, almost to a breaking point.

As for the Dunmer, they certainly were invited to join in the rebellion, but as Dunmer are, they simply do not see it as a conflict that affects them. They only lost their homeland because of the largest Volcano in Tamriel decided it was time to wake up with a bang. However, I believe the Dunmer would join the Stormcloak cause had that volcano not errupted. I also believe, that given more time, that the Dunmer refugees would take the Stormcloak side only after they feel secure and feel accepted within the Skyrim society.

So, I now renounce my support to the Empire and the Thalmor. The Stormcloak cause is something I will take up simply because the old ways of the Empire are no longer something that the Empire holds to it's heart. I also believe Mede is a pretender, is incompetent, and will kill the Empire completely.

Also, the fact that they wanted to behead me (even though my last reasons in a previous post of mine still hold merit) for no other reason than because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, gets under my skin the more I think about it.

Thanks for validating my fairly sketchy memories.... haven't done that quest in a while.

Both of these movements have faults and are "dying" unless someone purifies them and sets them on course. You can say that Stormcloaks aren't dying as "badly" as the Empire, but they have elements that make them off to a bad start anyhow. All of the arguments against them, how they probably won't fare well with these racist elements, or that they don't have the strength to combat Thalmor on their own is irrelevant. If you side with them, they suddenly have a dragonborn in their ranks. You can undo some of the bad crap too. But you can do this with the empire too. Siding with the Empire is not supporting the White Gold Concordat. That line of debate is pointless. Nor is it a lost cause - unless you consider yourself a lost cause. Then it is a lost cause.

They've set this up in a way where both roads basically lead down the same path. The only difference is whether you like the color blue or the color red.

good read for the dunmer pov:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dunmer_of_Skyrim

So now, "children of Skyrim," you have the truth of it. You may call this province home, but you can no sooner claim to own it than a cow can claim to own its master's field. You are just another breed of domestic animal, grazing stupidly while higher beings plot your slaughter.

I know, I know - its only one dunmer. But just as valid to blame all dunmer for what he wrote as to blame all Nords for Rolff.

Well, you also have to take stuff on the wikis with a grain of salt.

Avulstein Gray-Mane says that Thorald was fighting for the Stormcloaks when he went missing.

The whole Greymane/Battleborn thing is a big lost opportunity imo. They should've had a sort of "Montague/Capulet" sub-plot in Whiterun (with Jon and Olfina as Romeo and Juliet.. perhaps let them die in a double sucide too. Heh).

Dunmer of Skyrim is a book in game. if that was in reference to my post.

Yes, it was. The books in the game are NOT VERACIOUS. Not truth. They're written by people some of us don't even know from DAGGERFALL for cats'sakes. Most of them are... "flavor". That's it. Do NOT take them as anything but fiction.

Uh, books in TES more or less function like books do in the real world. There's fiction, there's non-fiction (which doesn't necessarily mean they're entirely true), there's everything inbetween. In this case it details the view of the Dunmer author.

Right. I'm juggling too many things right now to make sense. Thank you.

Some of it is intended to be reporting on facts, but facts and history as a discipline are always iffy. No one ever really knows in the real world, unless it was a blatant event. For example, no one really knows how someone as recent as "Pol Pot" died. He was a notorious tyrant with a relatively global eye on his whereabouts, and we don't even know if he died of natural causes or was poisoned. Same thing goes for Napoleon. Sometimes a report comes about from an eyewitness, but then.. no one knows whether to believe them either.

When someone writes an opinion you can generally be certain that it truly is his opinion. The book was about what that dunmer thought about Nords. There is no reason to doubt that that is what he really thought.

He does, you're right. Tullius could at least ask to have him transferred to legion custody rather than tortured by the Thalmor. But as the beginning of the game shows, he's not all that concerned with imperial law.

That is not why Tullius doesn't free him. He says having a prisoner freed would cause major trouble for the Empire.

I admit that is a black mark for Gen. Tullius, but I don't chalk it up to cruelty or cowardice, rather his willingness to 'bide his time' and defeat the uprising, rebuild the legions, and prepare for eventually war with the Thalmor. It's not right by any means, but it's the explaination, given what we see of his personality, makes the most sense.

Milk drinking politicians.