So, do the gods prevent innovation in technology?

Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:35 pm

Once again you underestimate the power of the "for the hell of it" mentality which has brought our world quite a few modern marvels.
Also, not everyone likes magic. It is entirely possible that an anti-mage group is trying to develop weaponry to counter the mages power.
True, but it would likely take centuries of developement before they had a viable weapon - that's a considerable amount of time for a group to spend on a technology like this, when it largely proves to be unweildly and underwhelming. A lot of things are done "for the hell of it," but these are often dropped when they prove to be fruitless (or pursues in a non-serious manner).

The developement of real-world firearms started quite slow, but once it started to prove itself it became widespread and considerable efforts were put into pursuing this. However firearms had no real competition. In Tamriel magic is overpowering competition, so firearms would need to be extremely advanced before they were considered a viable alternative (in fact, it would likely require the developement of smokeless powder, something that showed up nearly a thousand years after the discovery of blackpowder). Since firearms presumably wouldn't be so widespread, due to competition from magic, I suspect this would slow their developement even more.
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Steeeph
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:36 am

Because the Dwemer may have become so powerful, they'd want to take over all of Skyrim, enslaving/causing mass genocide to the other races. You need a balance in the force = disorder and dynamic society.
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Susan Elizabeth
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:42 pm

I think the magic replaced technology argument holds more water the more universal magic use is. If everyone is capable of casting spells with no drawback, then there is little reason to have technology.

I'm not sure what lore says though; is it a situation where magic is prevalent and easily attainable by all, or is it a rare talent sought after by the few that are able to withstand the mental and spiritual dangers of casting?

"Replaced" technology? Magic IS a form of technology in Mundus. And like all the other mundane technology, its innovation is stifled by socio-political (and religious) issues.
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JUDY FIGHTS
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:42 pm

yes there is, in the game redguard there is a cannon so cannons are cannon

not to mention the dwemer satchel charges in morrowind.

i also distinctly remember using an AK-47 in oblivion........although that might have been a mod.
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Oscar Vazquez
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:53 am

I love how everyone assumes that every person is magically inclined. Just because the player can learn magic does not mean that the majority of NPCs have such an ability. Given the power that the Mages have established you would think that sooner or later a rival group would seek to create a non-magical means to upset the balance of power.
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Adam Baumgartner
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:23 pm

Well, I was thinking about Skyrim, NWN, Baldurs, etc and how these rpg type games NEVER do what happens with normal Human Beings....

WE always invent better and better equipment that can do more.

Heck, look at the Medieval times a lot of people think it was just swords and spears and crossbows, etc but the gun was invented around the 11th century, it just didn`t catch on until later, but it did. How about grenades and explosives- they were being used in China pretty early on.

Point is, once we think of it, we usually start trying to invent it. Once invented, we tend not to stop making it better.

It also occurs to me that the Dwemer or Dwarves had such innovations. They even had what we could call robots and automated constructs, but then they suddenly vanished.

All of them- Gone.

Seems to me, that the gods of Tamriel, Skyrim, don`t want mortals building weapons that can shoot and explode.

Not likely true, we just don't play during an era, we play in our characters life which is for the game a few years maybe, it's possible many advanced weapons are being made, but if you recall from our own past, usually people are very slow to accept anything other than the norm. Give TES a couple more games and we will see weapons develop further.

Oh and the Dwarves were an very advanced race that sought to be rejoined with their God (their decision as a race similar to the Thalmar) and they succeeded, this is why schollars in TES are very cautious regarding following their work, they don't want history to repeat itself.
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Terry
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:59 pm

It's the same as Tolkien's universe really. Between the Silmarillion and LOTR tons of years passed (on our Earth mind you), yet technology remained exactly the same. If Elder Scrolls suddenly advanced to the Industrial Age it would svck, so I'm glad it doesn't.
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Sabrina Steige
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:13 pm

It's the same as Tolkien's universe really. Between the Silmarillion and LOTR tons of years passed (on our Earth mind you), yet technology remained exactly the same. If Elder Scrolls suddenly advanced to the Industrial Age it would svck, so I'm glad it doesn't.

There are so many ways around this that it would be silly to use it as a sticking point. I mean the limitation of specific raw materials alone could be made regional and only available in Skyrim in very limited quantities or by trading with vendors who only recieve monthly shipments, etc. Also, just because certain advancements are discovered does not mean that every other technology would advance as well. I mean would we consider ourselves to be in a nuclear age currently despite having the technology? It's not like every person has access to such technology. A single incident such as Chernobyl could also slow the development of such a technology simply due to the fear of repeating such a mistake. Again, there are so many ways to make technology work without ruining the setting of TES.
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Victoria Bartel
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:23 pm

Like Harry Potter lore, in TES not everyone can just use magic. While the wizards are off in their perfect little world, the muggles must innovate to survive and innovate they did.

Ya but the difference is in TES people know of magic, where as in HP the muggles don't. They can't just contract out jobs to wizards and such, but in TES they can.
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quinnnn
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:07 pm

Ah, yes. magic. Nope, not so simple.
Someone is new to the Fantasy genre. :tongue:
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Damian Parsons
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:02 am

Just wait until later eras.
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gemma
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:10 pm

Ya but the difference is in TES people know of magic, where as in HP the muggles don't. They can't just contract out jobs to wizards and such, but in TES they can.

Still everyone does not go to magic for everything, if so there wouldn't be any sort of weapon/armor/alchemy/etc because magic has all the benefits that such gives. So yes technology needs to improve either that be weaponry or armor or anything else. BGS however has actually went in terms of technology hell even magic itself because they are either too lazy or just not needed in their game lore wise technology grows game wise it doesn't and stuck due to Beth not anything else.
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Richard Thompson
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:13 pm

What I find most curious is that every time this topic about stagnant technology in fantasy settings comes up, it always centers around firearms? Why is it always down to fantasy gun control, and not any other modern tech like telecommunications and computer networking? The Lore even implies the Edler Council (and other certain groups) has some form of fantasy Twitter network they use to communicate through the dreamsleeve....but no, the discussion always comes down to why there's no guns.
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Klaire
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:49 pm

Reading the books about the dwemers in the game I read that the only god they worshipped was logic and reason. That's why they were so technologically advanced but it made the gods (specially the daedras) quite angry and I bet this is one of the reasons why they vanished.

I think OP is right, the gods (again, specially the daedras) don't want the races of Tamriel to be too smart because this way they are easier to control. Think about some countries in our world that are governed by dictators. They have very little internet access, their media (radios, TVs, etc) are controlled and highly censored. They restrict the population access to information because people who think too much are harder too control.
didnt the dwarves use the elder scroll and that made them disappear you know because isnt that what parthanax says happens when u look at it. well if not blinded fist but you know what i mean.i dont really remeber but they never did give the reason why they disappeared did they.
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Irmacuba
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:08 am

didnt the dwarves use the elder scroll and that made them disappear you know because isnt that what parthanax says happens when u look at it. well if not blinded fist but you know what i mean.i dont really remeber but they never did give the reason why they disappeared did they.

No, it was explained in Morrowind (more or less), that they transcended into the divine mecha Numidium.
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Maddy Paul
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:19 pm

It seems like the Dwemer destroyed themselves with technology rather than the gods prevented them.
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Jordan Moreno
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:02 pm

I love how everyone assumes that every person is magically inclined. Just because the player can learn magic does not mean that the majority of NPCs have such an ability. Given the power that the Mages have established you would think that sooner or later a rival group would seek to create a non-magical means to upset the balance of power.

In Oblivion, everyone knew that basic healing spell. Even in Skyrim there are more mages running around than you can shake a stick at. Even most bandit groups have a spellcaster or two. And all these mages are in a land where people view magic with suspicion. I'd say that pretty much everyone IS probably magically inclined to some degree.
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Shelby McDonald
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:08 pm

Why pursue gunpowder when you have the Destruction school of magic?
Nirn is not Earth. Do not apply Earth history/technology/logic/morals to Nirn.
Magic.
Grenades and guns are for one series, swords, magic, and bows for another.

/Thread
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megan gleeson
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:48 pm

Not all fantasy games are a bunch of swords and all that European middle ages thing. Have you played Fable 2 and 3?
Unfortunately.
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Tamika Jett
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:10 pm

True, but it would likely take centuries of developement before they had a viable weapon - that's a considerable amount of time for a group to spend on a technology like this, when it largely proves to be unweildly and underwhelming. A lot of things are done "for the hell of it," but these are often dropped when they prove to be fruitless (or pursues in a non-serious manner).

The developement of real-world firearms started quite slow, but once it started to prove itself it became widespread and considerable efforts were put into pursuing this. However firearms had no real competition. In Tamriel magic is overpowering competition, so firearms would need to be extremely advanced before they were considered a viable alternative (in fact, it would likely require the developement of smokeless powder, something that showed up nearly a thousand years after the discovery of blackpowder). Since firearms presumably wouldn't be so widespread, due to competition from magic, I suspect this would slow their developement even more.
True, also early firearms that is before 1830 was very inaccurate and slow to load, it's estimated that if you took 200 trained archers with longbows against 200 with napoleon war muskets the archers would beat the crap out of the musketeers.

Why did muskets replace bows, muskets had better armor penetration however the main benefit is that it took years to train somebody to be good with an longbow but just weeks to use an musket well enough. So if you was able to make a lot of metal pipes it was simpler to raise large armies with musketeers, if they died you could conscript peasants and have more next month.

None of this apply in elder scroll, an large poorly trained army would have problem with area effect magic. real world example, nobody fight tight together anymore as bombs and artillery make it to easy to kill them all.

Now cannons was invented before muskets and would be useful in sieges, if you don't have magic to break down stone walls cannons might be useful, however it's not something the player would run into much, the canons would be to large and cumbersome to use against monsters like dragons.
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Anna Beattie
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:33 pm

The day guns are introduced into TES is the day it stops being TES... I hope they never add them in.
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NO suckers In Here
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:01 pm

Not really, as they do have gunpowder.

Well if they have gunpowder and yet don't have guns then there's no excuse. It's handwaving by Beth.
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Matt Bee
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:28 pm

The day guns are introduced into TES is the day it stops being TES... I hope they never add them in.

So does that mean computers (or its fantasy equivalent) are okay?
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Sunnii Bebiieh
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:17 pm

What I find most curious is that every time this topic about stagnant technology in fantasy settings comes up, it always centers around firearms? Why is it always down to fantasy gun control, and not any other modern tech like telecommunications and computer networking? The Lore even implies the Edler Council (and other certain groups) has some form of fantasy Twitter network they use to communicate through the dreamsleeve....but no, the discussion always comes down to why there's no guns.
True, Skyrim is not medieval far more like year 1600-1700, the sawmills are pretty advanced, looks pretty much like a replica 1700 sawmill close to where I live, yes the saddle who push the log goes back to start then reaching the end but you has to push an lever for it to happens.

For communication magic would be easier, rather use more technology for manufacturing, why not stamp arrowheads, they would be pretty perfect for mass production as people use lots of them. Something like this might be done but we don't see it in game.
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Carlos Vazquez
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:34 pm

not to mention the dwemer satchel charges in morrowind.

i also distinctly remember using an AK-47 in oblivion........although that might have been a mod.

I remember those mods, they were quite lame lol. Basically staves as far as animations go. Then some kind of destruction magic would "shoot" out. The charge would be very long lasting, like 60+ thousand charge.
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Dean
 
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