Not all fantasy games are a bunch of swords and all that European middle ages thing. Have you played Fable 2 and 3?

nvm

There`s no evidence to say there isn`t.

Once you make them discover gunpowder, it becomes steampunk and the theme changes radically.

I'm fine with certain settings staying stagnant in a certain theme. After all, what forces them to automatically follow the trends we have made? Maybe gunpowder just cannot be made in the elder scrolls universe.

You don't even need to make gunpowder, all you need to make is some chemical that explodes with enough force to propel a projectile. And since alchemy is such a big part of TES, it is likely that there is some combination of ingredients that produces such an explosion

There is your problem, trying to inject real life logic into a game.

If you want steampunk and the things that come with it, look for a game that does those kinds of things. If not, just enjoy it for what it is, stop trying to pretend like real life logic has to apply to a fantasy game.

Again, why does it force this change? It is not like the knowledge or materials need to be common or cheap. I see the innovation of 'gunpowder' (note that an explosive catalyst need not be gunpowder exactly) more of a very exclusive technology that only the factions with the resources to acquire those items in quantity will ever be able to benefit from. Sure, the projectiles themselves would be plentiful but the catalyst's ingredients could require a very long refinement process limiting its use.

Technology as portrayed in Fallout 3 is infinitely more powerful than magic as its portrayed in ES games. Why bother with magic when one Fatman mini-nuke would turn an Ancient Dragon to ash before he opened his mouth. Why bother with magic when a Gatling Laser could wipe a Forsworn camp in seconds? Kind of over-the-top examples, but even with today's real life combat tech it wouldn't come close to being a fair fight. Yeah, I've wondered why after hundreds of years there is not the faintest hint of technological advancement. Fantasy games = not real life, but it does require a pretty hefty suspension of disbelief.

How is it a problem? Your bow doesn't randomly spew out arrows, they're shot out because of physics. Blood doesn't magically appear out of no where when you stab someone, it spews out of the cardio-vascular system because of biology. And an explosive compound is completely feasible because of chemistry.

And I don't want TES to turn steampunk, I want it to actually seem realistic in respect to it's innovation. Muskets were invented way before the time steampunk would have taken place and the technology could make sense in this time period under these cirucumstances.

Mages are the closest thing to scientists, so any advancement in technology (albeit magical technology) would come from them. BUT, half of all non-mages distrust mages, and the majority of mages are too busy fighting each other over little things like necromancy and power and what-not to actually invent anything. So if you want magitech, then 1) convince as many people as possible that mages will not turn you into a toad or burn down an entire city for making fun of their robes (although they probably would), and 2) convince as many mages as possible to stop fighting each other and work together for the advancement of magic and technology (not very likely).

Just because it follows things X and Y, doesn't mean Z needs to follow as well.

The fact that you even mention the word "realistic" is absurd.

I've heard of the levitation act, but has there been any lore canon for the reason to do away with spears and crossbows?

This is so not true. Magic is only one type of 'science' in TES. Alchemy has no magical influence and it works just fine and is often studied by those without any affiliation to the Mages. Likewise blacksmiths have improved their art and developed methods to produce or refine existing materials. Claiming that only Mages can invent new technologies implies that everyone else is incompotent, which is certainly not true. I mean in Oblivion the blacksmiths created horse armor! [/sarcasm]

Anyway, the Mages would be the least likely to spend time inventing a catalyst as they have magical methods to do the exact same thing. I still support my statement that it would likely be the Imperials or the Thieves Guild that would refine such a technology due to their motivations and how much such an innovation would benefit them.

While that is true, if something follows both X and Y it is very likely that it will also follow Z. I have never said that TES should have guns, I am merely saying that it can (though muskets would be quite nice in my opinion).

And how is it that 'realistic" is absurd? You walk on the ground so there is friction, that is real. You can hurt people with weapons so they are mortal, that is real. Kings have their castles and their wars, that is real as well. Just because TES is fantasy doesn't mean it has no ties with realism. As long as it has these ties, it is entirely possible to have muskets in TES lore.

Double post, sorry

The quote and edit buttons really need to be further away.

The reason its absurd because you and others are implying it should have gunpowder (and the innovation that comes with it) to seem "realistic", but there is no such thing. Of course certain things are expected, but there is a difference between "people should eat, drink and there should be gravity" and "after people have fought with swords for X years, they should invent gunpowder". One is things that come to us very naturally, the other is a long-reaching conclusion based on our own history.

I personally just don't like people applying their "common sense" to fantasy settings, because the devs are absolutely not required to do so. Whether Bethesda wants to include the invention of gunpowder is completely up to them, but people need to stop saying it needs to happen because it makes sense. It doesn't.

That can be done with an arrow technically, no need for guns to do that. And their is plenty of technology visible in Tamriel, just not guns. Magic as others have pointed out makes up for every thing else and most definitely color how Tamriel develops despite some not seeing it. Why develop medical technology when a simple visit to a shrine or a healer and a bit of magic heals and cures almost everything? Why come up with the plane when a few ingredients mixed together gives you a levitation potion? Why bother developing a train when teleportation magic will get you to that other city instantly?

Once again, I never said should, quit implying that I have. And yes, this innovation does make sense or at least it could if Beth wants it to. Nirn has scholars willing to do the research and development required to innovate, the achemical materials to make a gunpowder-like explosive, and the time to do it. This is the perfect setup for an industrial revolution of sorts. So if Beth wants to, they may add guns or any other tech within reason.

And quit with the "common sense and realism don't apply to fantasy" crap, it's just not true. In most fantasy games including The Witcher, Dragon Age, and yes even TES, realism applies to a certain extent. Beth can do and crazy thing to TES because it's fantacy, I understand that but it's not like science or common sense doesn't apply at all. If Beth decides to say that friction is actually caused by some magical being somewhere, I'll be fine with that because it's fantasy so that can make sense. but until then, I know that friction is caused by some law of physics.

And for the last time with gusto I never said should! (in the context you imply)

Dang it, not again.

If someone in Tamriel witnesses a blackpowder explosion they can hardly assume it will lead to mini-nuke worthy bombs. Blackpowder isn't terribly powerful, even conventional arms don't use it (and of course nukes and lasers are entirely different technology). Someone may believe that they can achieve massive explosions through non-magical means but their is no way to know what course of research will put you in the right direction.

No one in the modern real-world arms industry studies silver fulminate (the chemical uses in those little white poppers you can throw on the floor). Why would they when it's a messy thing to work with and there are plenty of better alternatives? In Tamriel those better alternatives are magic - and who would decide to study blackpowder (a weak explosive that's difficult to use well) when they could study magic instead? There's no guarantee that blackpowder is worthwhile . . . we know it is, but someone in Tamriel would not.

Why take the time to invent a gun that in medieval times, was impractical and useless, when you can just go to school and learn how to shoot huge balls of fire at people?

Rifles took forever to load and missed 99% of the time anyways. Only worked when you had huge armies shooting at the same time.

In real life, if we need something to get done easier, we invent something to help us. We don't evolve, our inventions do. But in TES, there's no need for half that stuff because of magic. But there are still machines to be found in Skyrim, look around.

Once again you underestimate the power of the "for the hell of it" mentality which has brought our world quite a few modern marvels.
Also, not everyone likes magic. It is entirely possible that an anti-mage group is trying to develop weaponry to counter the mages power.

Its like in Harry Potter, the magical families don't use technology simply because they don't have the need for it because they've got magic. Why would anyone be interested in technological advances when magic solves almost everything?

yes there is, in the game redguard there is a cannon so cannons are cannon

Like Harry Potter lore, in TES not everyone can just use magic. While the wizards are off in their perfect little world, the muggles must innovate to survive and innovate they did.