Well you have a point but there has still been some innovations during the TES games. One and most important innovation was made between years 3E 427 and 3E 433. This innovation was printing press. You can easily see that in value of books. In Morrowind books were really expensive as they were in medieval when they still were handwritten(before year 1450). In Oblivion and Skyrim they had dramatically lower value than in Morrowind. This proofs us that such machines are part of TES lore now days.

The Tamriel gods are the divine intervention type, but such overt intervention goes beyond the purview of most deities I would think.

I mean, we are basically saying that the gods, as soon as they see someone developing something technological, remove the influence in such a way as to discourage any sort of investigation or re initiation of the project in question.

That seems a bit too... direct. I mean, with polytheistic pantheons like we have in Nirn, you have duties split up amongst many different entities. The issue here, is that for something so overwhelmingly final to take place, many separate entities governing many different variables would need work in tandem, and I don't just mean in one pantheon. You have to consider the duality of the TES Pantheon. By this I mean, wouldn't it be in, for example, sheograth's best interests to cause mass disruption with something like guns... especially if it would even cause chaos amongst his rivals? What about Molag, don't you think he'd be all down with that wholesale slaughter thing? Now, why would those two examples be totally powerless to act against their Aedra adversaries?

Plus, there are perfectly good forces dissuading technological development in the history of Nirn. The loss of Dwemer civilization seems a pretty good motivator, as does the argument that has been presented about the stability of the currency system...

Also, your forgetting utility. Would there be innovation in technology? Yes. Where would it be though? There exists a force powerful enough to evolve along it's own lines, can level cities, kill people, cure disease, raise the dead... etc. Technological innovation would be in fields like agriculture, metallurgy... etc. Why? Because those fields are such that they have the need for greater advances to support a population no longer held in check by the forces magic can counter. Technology is developed as a means of addressing a problem. Sometimes, the problems just don't exist to warrent the development of tech. The incan empire didn't use the Wheel. Does that mean they were idiots? No, they lived in mountainous country, so carts were next to useless to them. Why would you develop a whole new technology to address a niche that is already filled by something that is constantly expanding it's scope in use and destructive capability... it's a step backwards. Looking at the: "Because everyone can use it arguement:" well... that makes a bit more sense... but then development would be driven by those few people who needed stuff like that: Bandits or the like. And... your forgetting that gun developments were slow. Gunpowder and cannons were created early in the middle ages... but firearms? We didn't see those until many many years later. Who is to say that we don't have some sort of early firearms in Tamriel? Your not going to see flintlock pistols for another many hundred, to 1000 years, but the items would be used by specialists only, and would be Rare.

Also... It could be argued that Tamriel is going through the dark ages right now what with all that collapsing empire nonsense. The dark ages in Europe lasted 1000 years. 1000, that is less time than the TES series has eaten out of Tamriel's history. Further, while innovation happened in the dark ages, it was isolated to certain areas, the majority of people remained unaffected. If you were a dirt farmer in the Black Forest in 1100, you likely did much the same thing your ancestors did in 100.

That is also true, but IIRC the Redguards have already developed canons and sadly making firearms a plausibility.

Where? If there were any Dwemer grenades (I'm not sure if they were or not) whats stoping you to say theses were based on magic and not chemical explosives?

From the beginning of the First Era to when Skyrim starts, 4451 years have passed. Note that this stretch of time begins at the dawn of (linear) time. If you are going compare the timeline of this game to that of the real world, you need to consider this. The Predynastic period of ancient Egypt began around 5500 BC, and other civilizations existed even before this. It's also important to remember that, according to lore, there was no long period of evolution as there was in the real world, the Gods having created life rather than life evolving naturally over millions of years. Whether you choose to compare the state of civilization and technology in Tamriel to that of the middle ages or to the Roman Empire (which began in 27 BC), it's clear that Tamriel has advanced faster than the real world has. I am not to familiar with TES lore about the early era, so am unsure about what level of technology Tamriel started with.

There is a book in Skyrim about lock picking, which describes how locks developed over time, starting with a wooden bar across the door. So there is evidence that Tamriel is developing technology. However, expecting Tamriel to follow the history of the real world doesn't work, as the histories aren't very comparable.

Oh, and also considering the: "Because everyone can use them" thing...

continuing with what I said: If bandits were going to want to use them because they had the need... well there is one issue: There are an abundance of bandit mages.

Even they wouldn't have a whole lot of need for something like this.

The Dwemer had the merish viewpoint of creation as a trap and Aedra as jailors.
They attempted to uncreate themselves to Anu, by turning their entire race into an artificially constructed god, the Numidium, that was to be powered by Lorkhan's Heart.
Kagrenac succeeded in turning the Dwemer into Numidium's golden skin, the golden mean between the mundane and divine, but he failed as Walking Brass did not activate for reasons unknown.

Interesting is that the Thalmor are trying the exact same thing, only via very different means.
They plan to return to Anu by uncreating the world.

Reason given? Magic or because.

Real reason? Keeping the franchise alive. You can't write a book about a gunfight that takes place in middle earth and pretend It's a LotR game. There are different franchises for that, you can even create new ones, but why convert one that is already successful in a diferent thing and piss old fans without a guarantee? The losses would be undeniable.

Here's a possible explanation: Tamriel is rather isolated compared to Europe, it's closest real world counterpart. Europe had a large amount of interaction with Asia and Africa, which affected its technology. As far as I know there isn't much history of exploration of continents outside of Tamriel, and certainly not in the more recent Eras of its history. The interactions between continents on Earth were essential to the way technology advanced and society developed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think windmills were invented between TES IV Oblivion and TES V Skyrim.

But you see that's the difference. Real world physics, moralities and the like do not apply in Elder Scrolls. Elder Scrolls universe with all thats within is the product of the imagination of a set of men and women who came to the conclusion that guns are not cool in fantasy settings.

Nah sweetrolls stem from Arena.
Sweetrolls = flour = mills.
What kind of mills is unknown, but logical to assume water, wind, and animal or manpowered mills.

This thread has a narrow idea of technological development. Sewer systems, soap, cups with handles, make-up which isn't poisonous, duvets and a plethora of other items which are taken for granted have all been scientifically developed. The fact that Nirn has evolved so little in 200 years is extremely odd, especially considering the prevailence of Dwemer ruins - to the point where one of Skyrim's major cities is a Dwemer ruin.

I think the most plausible answer is the lack of education. Although most Skyrim citizens seem to be able to read, write and add, almost all scientists in Skyrim are also mages. It's possible that the nordic distrust of magic extends to astrology, physics and even engineering and that if a person were to persue an interest in these subjects, it would mean heading off to a mage's school. I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that things were a little more advanced in the Thalmor-led states, and perhaps High Rock too, where the people value magic.

Why have archery then? It adds more ways for you to play the game. Rudimentary guns would be a great addition IMO, using gunpowder is entirely plausible. Gunpowder was discovered by alchemists, sulfur, charcoal and potassium nitrate.

It seems plausible enough to me that someone did discover gunpowder while trying to make a stamina potion, burned down their shop, and instead of seeing it as a possible weapon, decided that it was a terrible recipe for a stamina potion and never went further with it.

I didn`t say i wanted technology advancements in Tes.

Whatever gave you that idea?

well dwemer almost became better than the Gods thanks to their Tech/magic in TES so they were utterly eradicated (maybe)

I suppose it's cause once someone figures out how to create gunpowder, cases and rifles/pistols/revolvers/magiczubaacannons then they can produce and sell them to those who aren't good at magic.

So say someone isn't good at magic and actually fear magic, then wouldn't a rifle be better for that kind of person?

If only one highly specialized group can use it, then it isn't a really practical replacement for technology that everyone could have access to. That's obviously true with the Inner Council.

Now, while it is true that mages in some senses replace technology on the battlefield, this anology has severe limits. Like one of the books in the game points out, if a mage gets stabbed in the dark, then you're screwed. The mage is gone forever. A tank is harder to off like that and far more easily replaceable than feeding someone for 30+ years and giving them a world class education. It also means that you are dependant upon the mage and have to cater to his personality. Imagine if we had to CONVINCE our tanks to fight! Technology means you can easily get anyone using it with a tiny bit of training, so if someone ends up being trouble then they are easily replaced.

There are tons of conveniences in modern life that magic doesn't replace and frankly can't in TES unless mages found a way to cheaply make magic devices that anyone could use. There's a vast difference between a human-based resource and a tech-based resource.

More to the point, we don't see the most important sorts of tech in TES, even as magic. Where are the labor saving devices for every house or even village or city? Nowhere (well, we've seen windmills in Skyrim, unclear if they existed in lore earlier). That keeps things backwards more than anything else. Of course, I'm pretty sure that's the sort of world the developers want to be making games for, which is why technology hasn't advanced at all. That will stay the same until the devs change their mind.

Nothing, but I get the impression many nin this thread does. And the comment wasn't directed at you. Sorry if that sound snide, I do not mean to be.

I can see it now......

"You know, that tiger tank over there said you were weak, and your momma was a forklift...."

Nirn REALLY doesn't work the same way as Earth. Look up in the sky. What you think are "moons" are actually the corpses of a god and what looks like a 'sun' is actually a blasted hole into raw aetherium.

Nirn is literally composed of melted-together god-corpses called Earthbones and half-sentient half-dead monstrosities called Aedra. The sum of what the fused Aedric spheres can come up with is limited, and apparently prohibits gunpowder.

I think certain capabilities are purposely left only for a select group, who guard their knowledge and dont want the common man to know too much.

But there are examples of advanced technology everywhere you look in TES.
-Book printing. A form of printing engine is obviously wide spread, as there are many books on many subjects, not just a few select libraries of religous texts.
-Advanced glassmaking. Large leaded glass panes are common in Tamriel, we invented that technolgy in the 1700's I think.
-Architecture and construction. The cities of Tamriel show knowledge of many advanced building techniques, such as concrete, the ability to build high etc.
-Navigation and ship-building. The Empire once tried to invade Akavir, another continent. Need a decent fleet, navigation and cartography for that.

Etcetera, etcetera.
There are many advanced things in the games that youd casually look over because you are so used to it, but it did have to be developed at some point.
They are not medieval by a long shot, and if you factor in advanced magic even surpass us on some points.

Indeed. In fact, technology can also be an advantage over Sorcery...

Imagine a mage walking through a field while a sniper in a tree half a mile away pops him one in the head! the mage would normally wipe the sniper out, but in this case he didn`t even know the sniper was there.

Of course, then mages would need to make perma-shields designed to withstand bullet impacts, etc, etc

But that`s where the interesting stuff would begin.


Oh I see. I want TES to stay strictly Sword and Sorcery too, but I write and draw this stuff myself so sometimes I get to thinking of the possibilities of a combined world. It would cause BIG changes.

In fact, in one of my stories, the gods actually DO restrict people making any high technology like guns. As soon as someoone actually invents a `boomstick` anywhere, they immeditaely and mysteriously, drop dead!

though magic is huge, it is not where near technology.

in human history 80% or so of our advancements have been in the past 100 years. so for the first 3000 years of human life technology wise was reletively the same. plus we don't have magic, so the people of nirn have even less reason to invest in scientific findings.