We see a city that is run well and we see that she is capable of changing her mind if she makes a bad decision. Those a pretty good qualities. Her inexperience is a bad quality, but it seems fairly well compensated for unless one thinks she should be demanding her inexperience guide decisions.

Honestly, we see about as much of her leadership as we do anyone else's.

Her advisors actually almost end up being responsible for one of the greatest disaster Solitude has ever known.

Varnius complains about disappearances and strange noises and lights coming from wolfskull cave. Elisif wants to send a group of soldiers to clear out the cave.
Sybille says that's too much. So she send a couple extra units to protect the town instead. Varnius brings up the cave issue and Falk says he'll have someone take care of it.

When you talk to Falk about it he admits he was going to completely ignore it until you asked about it.

to be honest, there's really only one Jarl who gives us the best glimpse of managing a hold, and that's Balgruuf.


also, let's NOT get into the Torygg-Ulfric discussion. There's many a thread about it, and if we want to dusciss it we should make a new thread for it. But this thread is noth the place for it.

The thing is, if you are going to discount what the NPCs of Solitude say about her as heresay, you are going to have to do the same thing for Ulfric as well. And a great deal of the negative things surrounding Ulfric come from what people around town say about him (no, I am not talking about what he did to Torygg, which was wrong). It's ridiculous to say that Ulfric is racist because people say he is despite never actually showing that racism, but then to turn around and say that Elisif is a strong leader and anyone who says anything otherwise is just spreader heresay.

I don't consider it barbaric, for one.

You said that Elisif's advisors are trustworthy. Sybille certainly is not. She's a vampire and is running the dungeon as her personal torture chamber. Even the creepy Altmer mage that follows Erikur around thinks she's creepy.

you're understating things a bit. Elisif wanted to send an entire legion until she was corrected.

Hah I forgot she wanted to send that much.

Does she even have a legion at her disposal?

And he points at that there's a war going on and so resources are very limited. He thinks it is just some bandits or animals, which is pretty reasonable. I don't think we can judge them that harshly for this.

Fighting someone else to the death isn't barbaric in your opinion. Really?


The Altmer mage CLAIMS this is the case, but there's no evidence for it as far as I know. Her being a vampire isn't necessarily evil in itself, though most vampires are evil.

I don't think we can necessarily say he's racist. He doesn't seem to care or be aware of the major problems with race relations his city has. More likely he doesn't care, unless he's really that disconnected from the city he lives in. Not a great mark in his favor in either case.

Personally, I thought it had more to do with having no money whatsoever.


She actually is classified as a vampire by the game.

This isn't Skyrim 90210. Torygg's inaction was threatening Skyrim's very existence, as Ulfric saw it. By challenging him to a duel, he was forcing Torygg to either expose his weakness or face a moot. Doing what you have to do to save your country is not barbarism. One person's barbarism is another's heroism.

Just listen to her talk, for crying out loud. It's the same vibe as Ingunn Blackbriar. She enjoys causing pain and death, and can talk about it with a smile on her face. Like I said, go talk to the cook. He says they're all afraid of her.

Solitude is not managed any better than any other hold. It's just richer, so it can put on a better facade.

hard to say. Due to the fact that in-game Tamriel is merely an underscale representation of what actual Tamriel is, and considering we're never given Tamrielic definitions for a legion, AND considering we see at most a dozen guards/legion soldiers at one time, it's really hard to know for sure.

just to clarify, I DON'T think he's a racist. I was merely trying to offer a counter-argument. obviously he's busy with the war, and obviously everyone everywhere seems understaffed.

anyone else noticed that trend in TES games? Whenever a cry for help is rejected by any authority (city guards, legion, stormcloaks, etc) the reason is always "I can't spare anyone". Tamriel appears to have a massive underpopulation crisis.

I'm not sure anyone actually intended to say Solitude is the best run Hold. Someone might have, I don't deny it, but I don't think most of us are saying this. I think we're merely defending EXACTLY what you just said: it's not managed BETTER than any other hold. We're contending that it's managed just as well as the other holds.

Well, every town only has like 10 people in it =P. But yeah, I know what you mean. I think there is more Ulfric can do for the Dunmer, and it bugs me that he doesn't, but in this case I really do think it's justified. Solitude does have the Empire backing it financially, and Ulfric doesn't. He's poor as hell. He can't even afford enchants on his robes. Heck, he doesn't have ARMOR.

and we all know enchanted robes are this year's in-style.

Dude has a DEAD BEAR hanging from his shoulders. It aint fashion OR function.

That is what Elisif needs, come to think of it. Something dead hanging off of her.

In the end The high king showed he was no coward, He showed that he was a decent man that fearned nothing, He even states that while facing ulfric stormcloak he knew he was going to die but still decieded to fight, That is A sigh of great character.

I hate to admit but Yes elisief Or whatever her name is simply A figure head.

My take on it is that besides being stretched for manpower, which you also hear about in Blood on the Ice, and being distracted by war planning, he's just following established precedent whereby the Dunmer and the Nords keep to themselves. The Dunmer were allowed to take land without compensation or swearing fealty. That in itself is pretty generous. They are also xenophobic and proud themselves. So I would guess that dynamic of "we don't expect much from you, but don't expect much from us" has grown up, and Ulfric is too distracted to want to change the status quo.

Really the Dunmer don't help themselves, with some exceptions who put their shoulders to the wheel and don't mind getting dirty. The layabouts and skooma swillers in the New Gnisis Corner Club just want to ***** and talk about the good old days when their house names meant something.

Oh sure, I can respect him for dying bravely. The thing people neglect is that he could have declined Ulfric's challenge. That would have made him look weak, and he was Nord enough that he couldn't accept that.

In Sovngarde he says his only regret is leaving Elisif behind, not anything about Skyrim- which reminded me of what Ulfric says that he was more concerned about entertaining his queen than being a true high king.

I really don't see how Ulfric's city looks rundown. All the cities are like that, with plants growing in the city, cracked buildings (okay, maybe Solitude lacks this point), grass, ect. The only difference is that Windhelm, being up in the mountains and the coldest location in Skyrim, gets dirt instead of grass.

Plus, Windhelm is one of the oldest cities in Skyrim, and is known as one of the first cities ever built by the Nords. Of course it looks old, it IS old. And I don't think Ulfric is a bad Jarl for not spending all of his money making the city look not old. That would be a waste.

I have to agree with this. Ufric is one of the few jarls of action other than Balgruuf who is quick to send help to Riverwood when he learns that his hold may be in danger.

And Ulfric is more concerned about becoming High King than he is about running his city.