I don't agree with Ulfircs views. I don't like him either. But at least the man has heart. At least he can inspire. At least he cares about something. At least he has drive!

Ulfric is a man who leads from the front. Leads by example. He makes things happen. He trains his shout.

These other Jarls are a joke! Half of them are kids or following Ulfric like a pack of wolves licking the behind of the Alpha Male.

Take Balgruuf of Whiterun for example.
He barely reacted at all when you told him about the dragon attack on Helgen. He barely reacted at all when he was informed of a dragon near to Whiterun. He barely reacted at all when you came back with the news that you defeated the dragon and absorbed its soul.

You might argue that its because he knows about all the legends and is well educated on the subject. But there is a difference between something you've read about and something that is happening for real right now! Something that hasn't happened in hundreds of years.

Yeah, most of the Jarls are kinda' asses (some of them complete asses ) especially the arrogant way the slump in their 'thrones' when they're speaking to you. The only one I've come across that seems decent is Elesif.

Ulfric's voice sounds like the voice of the Loknar from Heavy Metal - gotta' love that.

I'm gonna' side with each on separate characters, but in reality I have to lean towards the Stormcloaks for their ideology.

Eh, Balgruuf is one of the few decent jarls.(I'd say the jarl of morthal is the other) Just about any other jarl would be a more fitting example

He protects his hold, and knows his main duty is to his hold. He stayed calm and collected during the attacks and made rational decisions. He utilized his court mage due to his greater knowledge of the mythical.

Takes a good deal of guts to stand up to both sides during the civil war.


Elisif is a terrible Jarl IMO though. She can't think for herself and doesn't seem to have the leadership qualities necessary for the position. She's a nice person, but a terrible jarl.

Balgruuf is one of the better ones. He completely lacks caution but not balance, and sends out soldiers immediately to aid Riverwood. Jarl Igmund in Markarth and Jarl Elisif in Solitude are completely clueless,

Elisif is nice but dim; not Jarl material.

Screw Ulfric. Best Jarl is Idgrod Ravencrone.

I actually liked Baalgruff. I hate his replacement Vignar.

I think the Jarl of Markarth is kind of decent too. Not the greatest, but decent.

I also don't mind Winterhold's Jarl. He's got a chip in his shoulder, but that's cause he's got nothing left to govern really.

Elisif - Doesn't seem to know how to handle her position. Defers most everything to her advisers(Which she has a lot more of than other jarls)
Igmund - Betrayed Ulfric(Probably caused a good deal of his current anger), blind or complicit with the silver-blood corruption in town.
Idgrod - Relies too much on her visions, doesn't take her people's concerns into account.
Siddgeir - Doesn't do any actual ruling, uses treasury to give himself rewards. Treats everyone like peasants.
Balgruuf - See above.
Skald - Absolutely paranoid about the empire.
Ulfric - Too focused on the civil war to really care about the goings on in his hold. Probably blinded by a need for vengeance.
Laila - Completely oblivious or complicit with corruption in her officials. Seems to mean well, but doesn't follow up on anything.
Korir - Completely embittered with the college believing mages to be the cause for all of winterhold's troubles.

Instead of "alpha male", I see him more as a drama [censored] who takes religion and race too seriously. I hate people like this. Definitely don't want them in my past time entertainment, like games. Goes for Thalmor too.

all fairly accurate, though Igmund I'm not so sure of. He sure as hell has no idea of the silver-blood/Madanach agreements, and from the sounds of that silver-blood who stands outside his throne room, he's not a huge accomplice of the silver-bloods. I place him more as the type of guy who is in a difficult position trying to stop the Forsworn, prevent chaos in his city, and not heavily alienating the silver-bloods.

What are you talking about? When I mentioned the Dragons he immediately sent troops to Riverwood to protect it, even over the advice of his councelor. When he heard of the Dragon near Whiterun he immediately sent troops, including his own housecarl, to investigate.

What game are you playing? Do you even read the dialog?

Well, in the fantasy world he's a part of religion and race (is there any evidence that he, himself, is actually racist, or just apathetic?) are very important indeed. I think religion and race are secondary motivations to him (race perhaps being a distant third); the main one is his wanting to be High King, his personal grudge with Tullius, and personal revenge against the Thalmor. His ideology is a cover.

he's apathetic, but the counter argument can be made that, as Jarl of Eastmarch, he has an obligation to his people first, and is responsible for the well being of all his subjects, and so to be apathetic to an identifiable group of people in such a position is to be racist.

They're not important to me. Entire worlds don't really work that way, when it comes to these subjects. There's even signs of characters like my own in the game. Nords even, like Vilkas. He doesn't care about the war very much, and he doesn't care about what "old god did what". The rest of the companions like dealing with personal conflicts, and don't give a crap about "bickering Jarls". I don't want to be much different. I don't admire people like Ulfric, or call them "alphas", if they exist in real life. They're usually Jihadists or fundies. Doesn't matter what side they're on, it's always the same type of maniacal idiot.

edit: If it's just a cover, then maybe that's clever of him. I guess. He knows how to push people's buttons then.

He's apathetic in general, not towards anyone in particular. A lot of Dunmer characters in the game have worked hard and have found their way out of the slum. There's also a successful Altmer merchant who openly admits to having just arrived from Summerset Isle, and is one of the richest people in the city. It's those who don't work who, to quote her, 'continue to dwell in that slum.'


He does seems to be a pretty good politician, what with the Markarth Incident and murdering the High King. Smart moves, every step of the way.

ah but that too is a mistake. He's widely accepted as Jarl of Eastmarch. He is responsible to ALL his citizens FIRST. Instead he places the war above his duties as Jarl. A good leader should be apathetic to no one.

He was way too calm about the whole thing. As if he's seen and trained for a long time.
Like I said. The Jarls are too laid back for all the things going on around them.

I disagree completely. Having played the Civil War questline from both sides now, I was floored that when you finally take the Windhelm palace, Ulfric is just lounging on his throne; he didn't bother to take part in the fighting or anything. At least Balgruuf took up arms in defense of his own city. I think Ulfric is more charasmatic than many of the other Jarls, but that doesn't mean he's not an [censored].

Well, yeah, maybe. Have you seen how they sit in their thrones? I mean seriously.

^^ That's what I use to think, until I faced him at the end of Civil War. He was all talk no action.

Until he fights you that is.

A lot of people seem to like Balgruuf. I don't. He's the perfect example of a clever, non-committal politician. He can sit on his high moral horse because he doesn't takes sides. He doesn't want to get his hands dirty. Like the OP correctly observes: he's passive. It's easy to be the conscience of the world if you don't get involved in it. He's the reason why evil so often triumphs: because "good men" do nothing.

He says he dislikes the WG concordat yet does nothing against it. He dislikes the Stormcloak movement yet does nothing against it. Only when Ulfric forces his hand does he choose sides: he lets in the imperial troops, not out of conviction, but to protect him and his government. History is full of these fence-siiting politicians and rulers who vainly hope that history is something that happens to other people.

If you want neutrality, Balgruuf, take the consequences from that neutrality: defend yourself and don't ask for the help of those you wouldn't support when they needed you.

don't necessarily disagree, but in his defense, both sides seem to have merit, but both sides have their flaws too, and it sounds like he just has difficulty getting past those flaws. It is a grey, no clear-cut positive outcome civil war.

plus, Balgruuf has decent reason to stay neutral. Think about it. Whiterun is the trading hub of Skyrim. As long as it remains neutral, both sides profit. The moment Whiterun chooses a side, chances are it loses trade with the other faction. Add in its central position, and it becomes a key piece of this war, which gives Balgruuf the power to remain neutral, at least for a time. it also better protects his people too because his neutrality keeps factional raids at bay.

Hello? They are (drumroll)...... nobility.

Do they really care about the peasants? No. Has nobility ever really cared about the peasants? Well only when their collective necks were headed for the chopping block, only to be replaced by the next batch of nobility who don't care about the peasants. They are oppressors! They and their noble allies oppress the proletariat of their towns and villages. Only nobles (Thanes) can own property. The rest are landless and forced to sleep in bunkhouses. Peasants enlist in the guard to get better living conditions, but not everyone can get to be a guard. Then the militias go off and fight wars at the whim of their noble masters. Power to the proletariat! Even Ulfric will oppress the proletariat.

don't disagree, but in the defence of the property aspect, I'm certain if you were a native born Whiteruner you could own property. The main reason the Jarls seem to wait until you're a Thane is because you're an outsider and they need a show of faith to ensure you won't be a danger.

which is why I wait until I become thane, and thus above the law, before I go on killing sprees.