The Stormcloaks are Nord supremacists. If they have power it's going to only be in Skyrim, but if they decide to expand their power in the future to other provinces it could be a horrible event. The empire welcomes all races and speaks for all of Tamriel. The Emperor may have been assassinated, but he had no backbone and deserved to be superseded. I think that in the canon the Empire will unite the races of Tamriel under one banner to fight off the Thalmer.

What people keep saying about the dossier is that "Ulfric is placed there by the Thalmer to rally an internal war." Which is true! And "The Thalmer don't want Ulfric to win the war." Which is also true, however the only reason the Thalmer don't want Ulfric to win is because they want to deplete Skyrim of it's resources for as long as they can with this war.

And lets not forget the Ulfric (and the Thalmer) almost knowingly caused the return of Alduin by causing this civil war. The war was the last part of the prophecy to occur. A prophecy that they probably knew.

After the Alduin crisis, the Thalmer are the real enemy, and Ulfric's rebelion is doing nothing but helping it.

If Ulfric wins the war the Thalmer win.

The Septim Empire was racist during Tiber's time. It was "Nords & Colovians deserve to rule the world. [censored] elves. [censored] Khajiiti. [censored] Argonians. [censored] Bretons. [censored] Nibenenas. [censored] Raga."

I'm not running away and pouting. I'm just bowing out of this discussion because I think my comments are getting mixed into the ones about the history of Skyrim's relationship to the Empire in TES V when I'm only speaking of the motivations of "empires" in general.

Edited to correct for current revision of TES.

That is a rather polite way to frame colonialism. In any case, if it was ever true, it isn't any longer. The empire now consists of only three provinces, all human.

You could just as well say that the empire caused Alduin's return by accepting a peace that was unacceptable to Skyrim, aside from weakening Talos.

as with any empire, it has outlived it usefulness and tries to cling to the glories of the past instead of changing to meet the demands of the future.........

the empire should be driven out of skyrim, but ulfric is in no way the right person to take over.. he is just as bad as the empire, he just has a different enemy he vilifies.......... he donest have a rpoblem with what the empire is doing, he just wants it to be him doing it and the victims to be those of his choosing instead of the empires.......

neither ulfrich or the empires goal has ever been to allow people to live by their own choosing, so to me, both are both sides of the same coin and as such i dont care who is in control, i only care about which one being in control can do me the most benefit........

Cyrodiil is a pretty diverse province from what we've seen in Oblivion. There's a large variety of races present that call it home, even the capital has people of all races and backgrounds. Chancellor Ocato was a High Elf, the Count of Cheydinhal was a Dunmer, etc. It was all too common to find successful and wealthy individuals of all races, whereas it's a rarity in Skyrim.

Ocato's tour is not exactly a great example for how open imperials are to other races being in power. And regardless, the diversity of Cyrodiil is not based on a history of warm-hearted multiculturalism but of bloody colonialism. Submit to us or we'll stomp you with our big robot. Granted they used assimilation- forced or otherwise- to do this rather than just exterminating other races, but using this history as proof of tolerance is just funny.

Since this is a shared history with Nords, it's also rather irrelevant. Skyrim is geographically remote from and its climate inhospitable to a lot of the non-human races. You wouldn't expect to see many of them around, with enough history to establish themselves. The Stormcloaks are racist angle is just way overblown.

Here's another way of looking at it. The world has a way of balancing things out. The rise of the Thalmor and Ulfric allowed Alduin back into the world AND allowed YOUR CHARACTER to be the Dovahkiin. What I see with the the civil war situation is that Ulfric, by Nord right challenged the King to a duel, and the winner of the duel would be the High King under Nord tradition. Ulfric won the duel. Tullius, however doesn't understand Nord tradition and had Ulfric arrested for murder, and imposes his rules over Skyrim and over Nord traditions. Ulfric escapes his execution with you and starts the civil war between the jarls and their militias who support him and the remnants of the Imperial Legions in Skyrim under Tullius. Tullius overplayed his hand and bit off more than he could chew. Neither side can win without your help. There will be bloodshed anyway. A divided Skyrim is what the Thalmor want. A unified Skyrim is what the Thalmor do not want. Especially one that does not recognize the WGC.


There is nothing to say that a unified Skyrim under Ulfric (or Tullius) would not support an Empire that tears up the WGC. I think this is going to be one of the DLCs. It will require someone other than the weakling Mede II.

Wulfharth was many things. He was Ysmir, like Tiber Septim. And he was Underking, like Zurin Arctus.

Neither the Nords nor the Imperials view Talos as anything other than Tiber Septim. The Nords see Wulfharth as an ancient hero and the Imperials see Zurin Arctus as a master battlemage, but I 've never heard of them getting confused or blurred. Sure Tiber Septim and Wulfharth were simultaneously Ysmir and Zurin Arctus became the new Underking, but I don't see how that makes them Talos.

IMHO, if Skyrim were to take the fight to the Thalmor, the most allies they could get are the redguards of Hammerfell/Hammerfall(spelling?) and maybe the argonians, due to the Imperials and Bretons likely still harboring feelings of resentment of the nords breaking the empire.

You don't think the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" would kick in...even if only temporarily?

What they mean by blurred is, they attribute parts of what each of them did to tiber. Each of them fulfilled a vital role in the lorkhan creation/betrayal enactment. Tiber could not transcend to Lorkhan's role if it was just his own doings.

Whatever you called it, they ended an era of chaos, destroyed a much more well-connected Aldmeri Dominion, and established a society more open about other races than probably any other nation would have established. That Cyrodiil has been ruled by Akaviri snakemen, Altmer, and Dunmer shows its a step up from most other Tamrielic societies in terms of racial tolerance.

i'm just saying that if it does happen it would take a lot of convincing.

Who knows? Succesful rebellions are infectious. Maybe they may get to like the idea of governing themselves as well. Or at least find it preferable to living under a Thalmor puppt regime. I can't see either siding with the Thalmor, if offered a choice.

After the dynastic empires came the nation states. Maybe this is the time?

Nooooo! Don't suggest that they advance the timeframe - keep it ancient/medieval. The Elder Scrolls IX: Modern Warfare just ain't right.

Maybe just a little musket here and there, no?

Maybe, but I'll use Fable as an example: over the 3 revs it has advanced in time so I can't imagine what they'll do for IV and V and beyond.

Just a heads up. Redguards already have cannons.

This thread is full of great comments.

The empire in skyrim is the archtypical "big long arm of the law" - rule, righteous , wanted or not, by a larger force of arms and governing body. It bears easy resembelence to a number of periods of real-world history. So, during the opening sequence a scene is painted that illustrates this force and some of the dynamics involved, including introducing the key protagonists. I figure few players would stumble away from the chopping block thinking "wow, I need to enlist with these imperial folk right away". Some might be ready to hotfoot it to windhelm to join the resistance the same hour. Anyone else inquisitive enough to investigate both sides of the story and ask the natives what they think of the war, or where they stand, find the real story is far from black and white.

I found this part of the back story to be highly engaging, and hope it is continued in DLC in one way or another.

Those zany Turks and their Janissaries.