The Skyrim Civil War. Who's Side Are You On ? : V - Skyrim

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:39 pm

~~The Germans~~ Stormcloaks

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:29 pm

Still haven't started the war quests. Still refusing to swear an oath of loyalty. I'm the bloody Dovahkiin, they can swear loyalty to me, or it ain't happening.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:18 pm

Other cultures are perfectly capable of managing their own affairs - they were doing it since before the Imperials were even intelligent enough to keep as slaves.

Talos was probably the same

Talos had to have a titanic ego to achieve CHIM, so he was probably far worse than Ulfric.

Ulfric won't even let Argonians into Windhelm

Given that there's also a sizeable Dunmeri population there and the two would likely compete for living space, that's a safety issue.

and he doesn't care when crimes are committed against dark elves so yes, he is rascist

Nor does he care when Nord women are murdered and a Stormcloak fort is overrun by mages. It's the war causing a lack of resources, not his policy. Brunwulf would say otherwise, seeing as he wants to become the Jarl, but we only have his word for it - a word flatly contradicted by events.

BTW Titus Mede 2 is a total badass (read about the great war) and is the only reason we even got a treaty with the thalmor instead of them completely destroying us

The treaty was exactly the same as the terms they offered before the war. They fought the war for no reason at all, other than his blinkers. If he or his predecessor had had a handle on events, the Thalmor would never even have got to the point where they could start dictating terms, anyway. Not noticing Thalmor infiltration of two - arguably, three - provincial governments?Putting only token defences on the border with an expansionist military power? It almost takes effort to be that bad at ruling.

Yes the white gold concordat's terms are harsh but launching a rebellion against the only force protecting you is wrong and stupid

The Empire isn't protecting them - it's doing exactly what the Thalmor want it to. There is no practical difference between the Imperial government and a Thalmor one.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:18 pm

Level 10 and haven`t chosen a side yet. In my new game I decided to take my time on a decision and get a better idea of who is who and better.

So far, it`s really hard to see which side is better to go for. Both seem about equal:

The Empire appear to keep Law and Order and a sense of Civilization. They don`t seem evil. They appear to be benevolent and just want everyone to be like them... Hmmm.

The StormCloaks don`t seem evil either, they just want their land to be THEIR land.

A the end of the day, it`s the Stormcloaks who actually have the MORAL right because they want to keep their culture and their land as theirs much like Earth indians of America and other cultures have wanted.

If I follow my moral feelings I should join the Stormcloaks... But I do like the Imperials `Romanic` bringing Order to Chaos thing.

Decisions... decisions. Oh well I`ll do more more Mercenary work while I decide...

The Thalmor are using the civil war (this is not a spoiler just logical thinking) to drive the Nords away from the Empire. It is a tactic know as divide and conquer. Think about it, they already drove Hammerfell out of the Empire. Now they are driving the Nords out of the Empire, 2 of the bigger forces of the Empire are now no longer theirs. It would be better for the Nords and men as a whole if the Empire just kept rule over Skyrim, let Ulfric declare himself high king and kept their alliance. However what is going to happen is that the Empire will exhaust resources and men to fight this war, that the Nords might win anyways leaving them without Skyrim's support. Then the Thalmor will be able to come in and attack the weakened Empire, and then focus on the other nations who will be without support and also suffering from the wars that were fought.

In the end this civil war only benefits 1 group of people. The Thalmor.

~~The Scots~~ Stormcloaks

Fixed. I get so tired of hearing people refer to the Stormcloaks as Nazi Germany. Fighting for your religious freedom and trying to drive an oppressive ruler out of a land that is rightfully yours does not equal genocide. People really need to go back to school if they think that Stormcloaks are in any way shape or form like Nazi Germany. Go watch Braveheart. THAT is what the Stormcloaks are doing.

The Thalmor are more akin to Nazi Germany than Ulfric and his Stormcloaks and I wish people would use their brains before they just started spouting that out. Again, Hitler wanted to commit genocide on the Jews. Ulfric just wants to drive the other races out of Skyrim so it's rightful owners can rule it. How is that even close? While on the other hand the Thalmor think they are the superior race of Tamerial and deserve to rule over it, and they feel Talos is a fake god and will kill any who worship him but you can't make the Thalmor = Hitler connection?

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:31 pm

Ulfric won't even let Argonians into Windhelm and he doesn't care when crimes are committed against dark elves so yes, he is rascist. BTW Titus Mede 2 is a total badass (read about the great war) and is the only reason we even got a treaty with the thalmor instead of them completely destroying us. Yes the white gold concordat's terms are harsh but launching a rebellion against the only force protecting you is wrong and stupid

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/decree-monument

Let it stand in honor of those who had the strength and spirit to accept Skyrim's Offer "untithed to any thane or hold, and self-governed, with free worship, with no compensation to Skyrim or the Empire except as writ in the Armistice of old wheresoever those might still apply, and henceforth let no Man or Mer say that the Sons and Daughters of Kyne are without mercy or honor."

We, the Jarls of Skyrim, hereby decree this site as monument to the struggle of those who fled their native home of Morrowind in the time following the Red Year.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:01 pm

Stormcloaks are losers! Hail the emperor!

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:19 pm

Stormcloaks are losers! Hail the emperor!

and it begins....

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:06 am

and it begins....

It only begins if you want it too =)

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:15 am

Fixed. I get so tired of hearing people refer to the Stormcloaks as Nazi Germany. Fighting for your religious freedom and trying to drive an opprsive ruler out of a land that is rightfully yours does not equally genocide. People really need to go back to school if they think that Stormcloaks are in any way shape or form like Nazi Germany. Go watch Braveheart. THAT is what the Stormcloaks are doing.

The Thalmor are more akin to Nazi Germany then Ulfric and his Stormcloaks and I wish people would use their brains before they just started spouting that out. Again, Hitler wanted to commit Genocide on the Jews. Ulfric just wants to drive the other races out of Skyrim so it's rightful owners can rule it. How is that even close? While on the other hand the Thalmor think they are the superior race of Tamerial and deserve to rule over it, and they feel Talos is a fake god and will kill any who worship him but you can't make the Thalmor = Hitler connection?

I think Germany refers to the germanic tribes who defeated three legions to free their land under the command Varneus(or somethign similar) and not to the Third Reich.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:59 pm

It only begins if you want it too =)

I didn't want to, but it began?

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:04 am

I think Germany refers to the germanic tribes who defeated three legions to free their land under the command Varneus(or somethign similar) and not to the Third Reich.

Yeah which is why there are countless threads that have come out and said that people see Ulfric as Hitler because he want's to drive the other races out of Skyrim? Unless people clarify I am going to assume they are just another one of those people who clearly didn't learn that much about Hitler.

Besides this is a game that has nothing to do with Germany, the Scots or anything else. I wish people would just stop comparing. Hitler, and any other comparison shouldn't be brought into a video game.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:34 am

Or Ulfric, for that matter.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:41 am

Yeah which is why there are countless threads that have come out and said that people see Ulfric as Hitler because he want's to drive the other races out of Skyrim? Unless people clarify I am going to assume they are just another one of those people who clearly didn't learn that much about Hitler.

Besides this is a game that has nothing to do with Germany, the Scots or anything else. I wish people would just stop comparing. Hitler, and any other comparison shouldn't be brought into a video game.

The Stormcloaks are as far from nazi germany as possible. They are, as I said earlier, more like the American Indians or the Africans who wanted to drive out the White man from their lands or Germanic people who fought the Romans 2000 years ago.

In truth, it is the Imperials who are closer to being like the nazis than the Stormcloaks, although the Imperials are actually not nazi, but more like the ancient Romans. The ancient romans did actually allow foreigners into their ranks.

So enough with the silly nazi comparisons!

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:36 pm

II am a soldier of the Stormcloaks like all true sons and daughters of skyrim.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:44 pm

Stormcloaks :cool:

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:38 pm

Out of my seven retired characters only two joined the war, one to each side. Unless there is a good RP reason for it most my characters leave the war alone.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:28 pm

Empire. There was NOTHING more satisfying to me than the end of the Empire sided civil war. You're right btw, Ulfirc is an idiot.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:08 pm

I choose stormcloaks mostly based on what you learn when you first meet Ulfriic and Tullius:

Tullius

Spoiler

Legate Rikke: Im telling you, Ulfric's planning an attack on Whiterun.
Tullius: He'd be insane to try. He doesn't have the men.
Legate Rikke: That's not what my scouts report, sir. Every day more join his cause. Riften, Dawnstar, and Winterhold support him.
Tullius: It's not a cause. It's a rebellion.
Legate Rikke: Call it whatever you like, General. The man's going to try to take Whiterun.
Tullius: Jarl Balgruuf...
Legate Rikke: Balgruuf refuses the Legion's right to garrison troops in his city. On the other hand, he also refuses to acknowledge Ulfric's claim.
Tullius: Well, if he wants to stand outside the protection of the Empire, fine. Let Ulfric pillage his city.
Legate Rikke: General.
Tullius: You people and your damn Jarls.
Legate Rikke: Sir? You can't force a Nord to accept help he hasn't asked for.
Tullius: If Ulfric's making a move for Whiterun, then we need to be there to stop him. Draft another letter with the usual platitudes, but this time share some of your intelligence regarding Ulfric's plans. Embellish if you have to. We'll let it seem like it's his idea.
Legate Rikke: Yes, sir.
Tullius: You Nords and your bloody sense of honor.
Legate Rikke: Sir.

Ulfric

Spoiler

Galmar: Balgruuf won't give us a straight answer.
Ulfric: He's a true Nord. He'll come around.
Galmar: Don't be so sure of that. We've intercepted couriers from Solitude. The Empire's putting a great deal of pressure on Whiterun.
Ulfric: And what would you have me do?
Galmar: If he's not with us, he's against us.
Ulfric: He knows that. They all know that.
Galmar: How long are you going to wait?
Ulfric: You think I need to send Balgruuf a stronger message.
Galmar: If by message you mean shoving a sword through his gullet.
Ulfric: Taking his city and leaving him in disgrace would make a more powerful statement, dont you think?
Galmar: So we're ready to start this war in earnest then?
Ulfric: Soon.
Galmar: I still say you should take them all out like you did Deadking Torygg.
Ulfric: Torygg was merely a message to the other Jarls. Whoever we replace them with will need the support of our armies.
Galmar: We're ready when you are.
Ulfric: Things hinge on Whiterun. If we can take the city without bloodshed all the better. But if not...
Galmar: The people are behind you.
Ulfric: Many I fear still need convincing.
Galmar: Then let them die with their false kings.
Ulfric: We've been soldiers a long time. We know the price of freedom. The people are still weighing things in their hearts.
Galmar: What's left of Skyrim to wager?
Ulfric: They have families to think of.
Galmar: How many of their sons and daughters follow your banner? We are their families.
Ulfric: Well put, friend. Tell me, Galmar, why do you fight for me?
Galmar: I'd follow you into the depths of Oblivion, you know that.
Ulfric: Yes, but why do you fight? If not for me, what then?
Galmar: I'll die before elves dictate the fates of men. Are we not one in this?
Ulfric: I fight for the men I've held in my arms, dying on foreign soil. I fight for their wives and children, who's names I heard whispered in their last breaths. I fight for we few who did come home, only to find our country full of strangers wearing familiar faces. I fight for my people impoverished to pay the debts of an Empire too weak to rule them, yet brands them criminals for wanting to rule themselves! I fight so that all the fighting I've already done hasn't been for nothing. I fight...because I must.
Galmar: Your words give voice to what we all feel, Ulfric. And that's why you will be High King. But the day when words are enough, will be the day when soldiers like us are no longer needed.
Ulfric: I would gladly retire from the world were such a day to dawn.
Galmar: Aye. But in the meantime, we have a war to plan.

The fact that stormcloaks are not really racist is based on this:

Spoiler

When asking to join the stormcloaks
Galmar: But first tell me, why's an elf want to fight for skyrim?
Me: So you only take Nords?
Galmar: You mistake me. Im not saying no - We're just not looking for sellswords. The stormcloaks need dedicated men and women who're devoted to the cause and willing to die for it.
Me: Skyrim is home to more than just Nords.
Galmar: Fair enough. But are you willing to die for your home?

And the fact that Tullius is cooperating with the Thalmor is based on this:

Spoiler

It has come to my attention that inquiries have been made as to the whereabouts of one Thorald Gray-Mane.
It is my duty to inform you that Thalmor agents have taken possession of the prisoner and have escorted him to Northwatch Keep.
I don't think I need to elaborate. It is in everyone's best interest if the matter is dropped entirely. I trust there will be no further inquiries as to this matter.
Gen. Tullius

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:44 pm

I kill all rebel scum on sight.
Inculding their Thalmor puppetmasters.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:27 pm

Imperials now and always.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:13 pm

Skyrim belongs to the nords, I wouldn't let foreigners tell me what I can and cannot do. Ulfric does have racial biases but can you blame him?

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:36 am

The only claims of Ulfric's racial biases come from his enemies and (if you choose the Empire) his eventual successor. There is no evidence to back up these claims, however. Newly-arrived immigrants from Summerset Isle are among Windhelm's richest residents, Dunmer and Bosmer own businesses and titles across Stormcloak-held territory, and in one of the cities (Morthal, I think it is) there is even an Argonian steward.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:05 am

I'm unsure what side I want to go with. I'm leaning towards the Stormcloaks... not sure though. That's why I'm reading the threads about it to make a clear decision.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:42 am

Imperials, the Stormcloaks are Racist Butt munchers.
the Imperials don't approve of the White Gold Concordant either yet they are one's getting blamed for it.
but the real enemy is the Thalmor, i'll give each and every one of them a Fuzzy Fist in the Face! :gun:

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:45 am

I chose the dragons side....