The odd thing is, I haven't been able to play either of those games for longer than 20 minutes at a time.

Can't even bring myself to beat them.

Skyrim though? I burned through that game like a top shelf bottle of Scotch.

Oh, I know, its sparkly and I'm shallow right?

I can't explain what it is, I've been gaming for some time, but Skyrim just does it for me on a lot of levels. KOA wasn't the same way unfortunately... I played that game 10 minutes and was almost certain I wouldn't be buying it. I felt the same way after every Fallout game and from Daggerfall to Oblivion. Probably would have played Arena too, but I was neck deep in MUD's and staunch RP rules and PVP when that game was out.

We were all screaming at the poor diluted fools chasing after graphics...so funny to see the same conversation going on now. Nothing changes, you know?



That being said, I've put just over 500 hours in on 7 characters... pretty well done with the game until DLC or I can imagine a different build.

I may have put too much time into this game too fast.

Or......... Maybe it's a personal preference

Indeed.

Exactly, and lots of the long-time fans are demanding more of the same (only better) and then get surprised when it doesn′t grip them like it used to. I got bored with Morrowind very quickly, lost interest in Oblivion once I realized that it had the worst character development system in the history of gaming, but I am having lots of fun with Skyrim, despite the flaws, probably because I didn′t play the two previous ones for 10000+ hours so there is still something in the concept that feels fresh.

Maybe your tastes have changed and fantasy RPGs no longer hold your interest like they used to.

I'm enjoying Skyrim very much. It's fun. It's not perfect, and one could dream all day of ways to improve it. But at the end of the day, it is what it is. If it isn't svcking you in, it's because it isn't what you want, and therefore you should not force it. Let it go. If you still feel as if you should be svcked in, then perhaps you need to alter the way you approach it. Set a goal and stick to it, e.g. "I shall walk to Winterhold from Whiterun and collect every butterfly I see." Or, "kill every rabbit I see", if that's what floats your boat. While Skyrim has fallen short in a lot of areas, it is no more or less than what I expected, and having reasonable expectations goes a long way towards making a new game fun. Perhaps that is your problem? Only you really know, but these are ways of thinking that might help you figure it out.


You're right about a lot of things, godhead. Bethesda has not written the greatest quests we've ever played in a game, nor have they created the smoothest, most realistic and heart-pounding combat we've ever experienced. It just seems that you're painfully disappointed because you are eager for a TES game that is absolutely perfect in every way. I don't have to tell you that's impossible. But it's really all how you look at it, because for some people, like myself, the game is great the way it is, flaws and all. Skyrim hasn't received high marks across the board for being mediocre. A lot of people find the simple joy of exploration, finding new things, seeing new landscapes, learning lore, and so on, to be fun enough to make up for what the game lacks.

But, sooner or later, the Creation Kit will be available, and modders are going to go nuts making all kinds of mods. If you stick around, you'll probably run into a bunch that give you what you want from Skyrim. Which has always been the beauty of the Elder Scrolls, since Morrowind. If it's not what you wanted, you can change it so it is.

Otherwise, there's a ton of other games in this world to enjoy.

For me games like Skyrim, Oblivion, Red Dead Redemption etc. pull me in because they are BIG and there's a lot of things you could do. If you have just an hour to kill you could go hunting in the forest, find those ingredients you need for a certain potion or just explore a random cave for some action or just plainly walk around and explore the world. Thats something I like in a game!

I hate games that forces you to take a certain path... they are more boring and I tend to never complete them. Skyrim is almost never-ending and that's just so sweet

The fundamental problem with Skyrim revolves around depth and balance, simple as that. The player has little if any effect on either the game environment or what happens within it, which is perceived by the player to be a serious lack of depth. Most people will become disillusioned with a given process when they realize that their actions cannot affect it. Good game design requires that the player's actions (whether positive or negative) be manifest on the game environment.

I remember a game called Black & White where my giant cow avatar really did start start to look a bit too sick and twisted due to my impatience with underlings, or another called Magic Carpet where I could literally rake and carve up the landscape with my spells. Both good examples of how the environment can change to reflect a player's actions.

Then there is the balance. Or rather, the lack of it. Gimping aside, I can easily go from Footwraps/Roughspun Tunic > Steel Armour/Weapons > Daedric Armour/Weapons in two simple steps. That Smithing/Alchemy/Enchantment can then be used to convert the very same Daedric Armour/Weapons into my endgame gear, before I even leave Whiterun, effectively renders all other armour and weapons obsolete. Now given that in most 'fantasy RPGs' the acquisition of improved weapons and armour is a fundamental consideration, this is a balance-related disaster of catastrophic proportions. Why even bother entering a dungeon or questing at all if you do not need/gain anything useful by so doing?

Stuff steroids. The equivalent would be to allow 100m olympic athletes to strap themselves to 10-ton insta-burn laser-guided rockets...kinda renders any training, fitness issues completely redundant; "Sure Bob, I am the world's fastest 100m runner. I am 3 feet tall, weigh 500 lbs, and my only hobby is eating crisps and chocolate cakes while watching DVDs on my giant sofa. They have to winch me out to the track. But what can I say Bob, I have never been in better form. I was born to compete."

A good video game provides a challenge which revolves around balance. If a player expends minimal effort then they should expect to find the experience relatively tough. Whereas those players prepared to invest the time and effort should be rewarded with advantages that make their relative experience easier, yet NEVER so easy as to remove the challenge. In fact the very best video games increase the challenge marginally faster than players can eke out advantages. Make progress too easy and the player will become bored. Make progress impossible and the player will become disheartened. The whole point of a game is to provide a challenge and balance is critical in so doing. Moreover, a challenging game will in itself generate depth, precisely because of the challenge (which is another reason why Skyrim lacks depth).

Of course we can gimp ourselves to generate the challenge, but the average player will gain little satisfaction from doing this. Why? Because human beings enjoy being rewarded by success because they work hard and push their limits. It makes us feel as though our efforts were important, even necessary for success. If we have to disable our abilities in order to generate the challenge then sure we can still experience success, yet I suspect satisfaction and the sense of accomplishment will remain elusive. After all, we were capable of so much more.

To those that say Skyrim is not about the challenge but rather about exploration, I ask what drugs has the shrink been prescribing? Put the controller down and step outside. This thing you are standing on is called planet Earth. We live here. It is rendered at impeccable resolution with almost zero lag. There are far more places to explore than in Skyrim, go forth and give it a prod. The creatures you will encounter may be beautiful, mysterious, or even deadly. If exploration spanks your sweet spot then wtf are you doing sat around playing Skyrim?

No, Skyrim is a video game. In order to be a good video game it requires depth and balance, period, both of which it lacks.

My solution is thus;

Bethesda are good at creating the game environment so they should concentrate on doing this. Now with the stack of cash that a title like Skyrim will inevitably generate, employ some of these talented modders that have improved the playability of both Morrowind and Oblivion to such an extent, allowing them to handle depth/balance issues. Since these modders are going to do this ANYWAY then why not take advantage of their ability to improve the game? Expense is a non-issue considering a well-balanced Skyrim is going to sell enough additional copies to not only cover the bill for the balancing, but also generate significant additional revenue. Everyone gains, from the businessmen to the players.

Since this is not already being done then I can only conclude that Bethesda do not realize there is a fundamental problem with depth and balance. This, unfortunately, does not bode well for anyone in the short term. Everyone loses, from the businessmen to the players.

Some fans of this genre will be a tad disappointed about now, a few perhaps even gutted. However I can assure them there is no cause for long term concern. Bethesda once spotted an opportunity and took advantage of it which is how they got where they are today. Skyrim's sales are enough to prove that there is now a significant market for the "open world" genre. Other developers will be hungry to exploit this market. They will be looking specifically at the problems Skyrim has. The easier said problems can be resolved then the more inclined other developers will be to tackle them. There may come a time when in retrospect we say that Skyrim's depth/balance issues were among the best things to happen to the genre, given that this particular TES title was the catalyst that spawned major competition. Competition generally breeds improvement, if not excellence.

For now the quarterback has the ball. What will the future bring? A sack? A fumble? An interception? A few yards gain? A touchdown? We can only watch the clock, pop open a beer, and await with baited breath...

Cause iyou have aged 5 to 10+ years older as well.

My attention span in any game is not like it was compared to when I was living at home under my parents roof during my high school days.

It's shallow.

At first I loved it but after a month it was stale and as said above the game itself apart from the game world itself is shallow in regards to quests and NPC's.

OMG yes, Magic Carpet was an amazing game. Anyone know if a DOS Box version of it is available?

Do you really believe that your perceived lack of content in the game is due to the fact that the data size is small? I'd say the problem is in your head, not on the physical disc.

To me, Skyrim is a huge step forward in terms of creating a convincing and vibrant artificial world, and this is enough to svck me into it like no other ES games managed to do before. I can finally make my character progress in a natural way. The quests are there just as secondary elements for me, it's good the game have them, but I do not necessarily need them to have fun.

But I know I'm part of a very small minority here.