Also hes preventing the mpot because its the wrong time now. Hes in the middle of a war and the empire has alrdy shown that they will step in if ots not favorable for them. How is he to know that during the moot where he has to be wont be an ambush? Its more along the lines the empire still has their hands in tne system where its not supposed to be put in the open. Also with them having tbeir hands in ot, how is he to know that the empire will accept the decision when they didnt accept the process before? The empire alrdy ruined a fair moot on both sides.
Thats why he dosent do a moot until the empire influence is off the system.

Basically he feels and rightly so that the system is rigged atm, cant blame him considering the empires actiom so far in the system.

If the Thalmor are as powerfull as you say how did Hammerfell fight them to a standstill



That might not be accurate to say Ulfric wouldn't respect the decision of the moot, it would be hypercritical to claim the old ways for a dual but not abide by the moot. We know for certain that the empire doesn't respect the nord ways, this is why a dual between willing participants and conducted in the old nord ways was classed as murder.

As far as I know, it was him that denied Skyrim their democratic process and delayed the moot by starting the civil war once he got back to Windhelm. Considering he lost the last moot to Torygg, I can see why he did it: he was determined to be High King. Keep in mind it wasn't the Empire that tried to arrest him, it was the Nords of Solitude that did.

Ulfric rebelled against the Empire and against Skyrim. That's treason by Imperial Law. He also broke the oath he made when he joined the Legion. Similarly, it's very possible that what he did to Torygg was disallowed by Imperial Law. Why is it okay for Ulfric to break Imperial Law, law that many Nords in Skyrim willingly follow, but it's not okay for the Empire to overlook Nordic law?


As I recall, he didn't have much respect for the results of the last moot. And yes, Torygg was elected by a moot.

Regicide is just the killing of a king or emperor. Legality has nothing to do with it. By dueling and killing High King Torygg, Ulfric Stormcloak committed an act of regicide. I'm not saying it's murder, but it is regicide.

It's not the right time because there are people who still stand against him. True Nords who don't cower at the sight of a tyrant who speaks of longing for peace but whose actions bring only war and destruction to the very place he claims to love. He's blocking the Moot because he knows he cannot win it, so instead he makes war in the hopes of replacing his opponents with shameless yes men and women who will bow to his every whim.


He doesn't back away from a peace treaty in Season Unending, which could have very well been an Imperial ambush just as much as a promise of a Moot. The real reason he's blocking the Moot has nothing to do with the Imperials rigging the system, and everything to do with the fact that he has yet to rig the system himself. Even if the Imperials had nothing to do with the Moot, and it was truly a free election where the Jarls could pick who they felt had the right to be High King, Ulfric would be unlikely to take the election, and he'd be more unlikely to allow the Moot in the first place. Ulfric's own words indicate that he has no intention of letting anyone claim the title of High King but him:

"But the Moot has not yet met to name her High Queen. And they won't. Not as long as I have any say in it."

So you're saying it would've been better to throw the remaining force he had into the Aldmeri Dominion's maw? I highly doubt the Thalmor would give them the chance to sign a treaty if Mede had went on and got the rest of his army obliterated. Had Mede been using the philosophy, "There's no time like the present," then there's a good chance the Aldmeri Dominion would own Skyrim and Cyrodiil at this point. That's why the WGC is signed, to preserve the future, but the ignorant don't get it, and Ulfric plays those ignorant folks like a fiddle to pursue his desires.

The WGC is signed by the Empire. Skyrim is part of the Empire. The Thalmor Justiciars are not only in Skyrim after the war ends, though they wouldn't have been there in such force had Ulfric not raised a huge stink about it, did the intelligent thing and take his worship of Talos into a private setting.

You say that so casually. Don't you realize how big of a thing you're asking the people of Skyrim to accept? Religious freedom is a pretty big deal.

So is not dying.

Many would prefer death. Being forced to deny the existence of your God, at least publicly, isn't something that you should expect people to accept casually.

actually tell me ur sourse that its ulfrics fault that they learned about it. All that ive seen is the jarl saying that the thalmor foundut about the empires deal and intervened. The jarl is an imperial loyal jarl, andwith the thalmor in the empires intel division u dont think that the the thalmor found out thru the intel division, that neither actually made a scene about it, that they found out thru the paperwork? really, where is it stating that its ulfrics fault that the thalmor found out about it?


imnot getting, how is that a bad thing? because if u are saying thats its a bad thing, then basically every king that was legally put to the deathby duel or TRIAL are commiting regicide. Because the definition of regicide is neither good nor bad, its just what u call the person who was responsible for the kings death legal, humanitarian, illegally, etc. Sorry if im not getting if its what ur calling good or bad, bc its typing and cant tell lol

But it would be wiser to simply worship in private. Talos is the divine who is holding together Mundus right now, and his existence depends on people worshipping him. Last time I checked, corpses can't pray.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing or a good thing. I think Ulfric did it to intimidate other Jarls from voting against him in a Moot, back when he held a shred of legitimacy before he started trying to just flat out remove anyone who didn't bow down and serve him as his own personal lapdogs, but I don't think regicide in and of itself is a bad thing. It's not the act of regicide, but the motive behind it, that is good or bad, and in this case I think the motivation was bad.

I started reading all these posts in this topic to get caught up in the argument of whether or not Ulfric is a scumbag. Than I realized, I don't care too much because its just a video game. Anyways...

Ulfric is a cool cat if you are a Nord character. Outside that, it kind of is irelevant because most likely (but not the case) if your toon is not a Nord than he/she is probably not from Skyrim and the Civil war only really matters if your toon is an Empire Citizen.

Tullius is an idiot. At the peace counsel during the negotiations, if I didn't give Tullious everything he wanted he threw a tantrum. What a dike. The negotiations were fair, Markarth for Riften and nothing more. But nooooo... Tullius wanted more. Anyways the actions of one dumb-@$$ general shouldn't diswayde a persons perspective of the true empire.

Both parties are suposed to be as neutral as possible at the start this way the player will pick a side. The problem with picking sides is, its rather one-sided. Once someone makes up their mind they are almost always too damn stubborn to change it when they are wrong. But this is a video game and there is no real right or wrong, just difference of opinions.

But one thing we can all agree on, Tullius is legitamitly stupid. Also Ulfric is narrow minded, whether he is right or wrong. Both are flawed, but still, Tullius is stupid


Edit: Is diswayde even a word? Maybe im the idiot

It's "Dissuade."

Right. Thanks. My Firefox spell check isn't working.

I wouldn't say Tullius is an idiot. He turned the civil war around (I believe Ulfric was winning before Tullius showed up), managed to capture Ulfric and his entourage, and likely would have won the war if Alduin hadn't intervened. He was also aware that the civil war was what the Thalmor wanted all along. And if he's at the Thalmor party, he mentions that he feels that a lot of what Ulfric says about the Empire is true.

It would have been better to stand and fight, IMO, yes. Playing a long political game with the Thalmor, that's giving them exactly what they want and is where their strength lies. I think Mede just lost his nerve and sold the farm.

They need to eradicate the Talos cult, and Skyrim is the stronghold of Talos worship. They were coming to Skyrim one way or another, at one time or another. "We're coming for you in every one of your quarters, Sons of Talos. None shall survive."

I don't think Tullius is an idiot. The problem with him is that he follows orders.

Ulfric's rebellion was their plan to get into Skyrim.

And they would have done it anyway. Are you saying the empire would stop them?

So you're implying Ulfric should've just sat there and been killed by the empire for trying to follow the nordic custom. Which also appeared to be a PERFECTLY LEGAL way to challenge leadership in High Rock. The empire never accused their duels of being against imperial law. They've never considered the same in their own legion forces of being against imperial law.

TES history is full of duels that the empire really didn't care about or even encouraged.

It's hard to come in for a moot when the people involved keep trying to kill you.


I'd love a source on this. Far as I saw he voices his opinion on the matter and then waited to see if anything came of it. Nothing ever came so he went the challenge route.

The Empire would love to stand and fight. However... it can't. Serious re-strengthening of the Legion needs to be done. Strengthening that was detained by the Thalmor poking Ulfric into rabble-rousing.

Both sides were badly decimated by the war. The Thalmor were moreso, but managed to hide this. And Men can procreate faster than Elves. You can see why the Thalmor wants to drag out the interbellum as long as it can.

So what? The sun will eventually swallow the Earth, does that mean we should blow the Earth up now and save everyone the trouble? If the Thalmor were going to find out eventually, then the best thing to do would be to delay that for as long as possible.

But where is it stated that it was specifically ulfric that brought the thalmor into skyrim? All ot says that they foumd out abput, nothing that ulfric was blabbing it.

Really please someone link sourse, otherwise its just bias opionion or madeup.

Im a stormcloak supporter and I dont think it was either the jarls fault or ulfrics fault, I blame the paper work getting into wrong hands.

So please someone link source

Also does anyone have the time when torygg became high king? Its my understanding hes been high king for about 10 yrs which would be plenty of time for ulfric to voice his opionions as its stated ingame and to see if theres any results or not.

The empire gave them the political cover, not Ulfric- without the Concordat there would have been nothing to hide.

If the Thalmor were capable of another attack, they'd have attacked. As it was, they didn't have to. They got most of what they wanted and can wait patiently for the rest. A true cease fire means both sides give up something, not that one gets its nuts twisted and the other does the twisting.

No, I'm implying that Ulfric should have either sat there and let his would-be subjects, the Nords of Solitude (who are no less equal than the Nords of Windhelm), determine what to do with him, or return to Windhelm and wait for a moot. From what I understand, he started the rebellion before Tullius and the Imperial Legion showed up. Chances are, if he didn't rebel, and if he did get to attend the moot without any Imperial interference, Elisef probably would have been picked as High Queen because according to Nordic customs, she's got the strongest claim. She's also alienated far fewer people in Skyrim than Ulfric had at that point. As far as I know, he had every intention to ensure he became High King, and part of that involved rebelling and ensuring that when the moot was called, the Jarls would be loyal to him. And with the Thalmor pulling his strings, there was no chance it would end peacefully.

It's also hard to get elected High King when the people involved (and by that, I mean the Jarls) think someone else has more of a claim by your own customs. Torygg won the last moot over Ulfric simply for being the last High King's son and that was back when Dengeir was in charge of Falkreach. Falk Firebeard says that Elisef's claim to High Queen is itself Nordic custom.

The source for the moot is dialogue from Sybille Stentor:

Even after Istlod died, the moot voted to make Torygg High King of Skyrim.

If Ulfric had respect for the results, he wouldn't have challenged Torygg. Don't forget that Torygg in fact respected Ulfric and might have sided with him. But Ulfric wanted to be High King, and we both know he felt Torygg was too weak (in terms of a warrior) to be High King of Skyrim. The challenge was a lose-lose for Torygg and Ulfric knew it. If Torygg declined, he would be seen as a dishonorable coward (turning down a duel is generally viewed negatively, no matter how unfair it would have been). If he accepted and defended his throne and honor, he wouldn't stand a chance.


No, I'm implying that they probably would have sought a civil war in the Empire even if they didn't have a rallying figure like Ulfric. We know that if the Imperials win any time soon, it'll weaken their overall position in Skyrim.