If he is a spy, he won't fight empire, right now, when Thalmor has ultimate power in all of Empire provinces...

And it's really hard, to figure out which side, is bad one.. they are equal.. to me at least...
both sides are stupid to me.. Empire from 3rd era was GREAT.. Septims!! 4ever!!

Yeah, he weekend the Empire.. but.. that doesn't mean that he would be on side of the thalmor, WHEN the 2nd Great War comes...

hopefully they will go deeper into that dossier or ulfrics connection with the thalmor.

Im just glad bethesda at least followed suit from fonv to where the person we end up backing has strs and flaws and in no way perfect. Would really love to see more of these scenarios in tes again.

While I can understand that the Empire had to sacrificed public worship of Talos in exchange for Survival the nords don't see it that way. They see it as being weak and that's why ex former legionaries like Galmar and Ulfric decided to create their own organization “The Stormcloaks” to retake back their freedom and make Skyrim independent from the wrath of a weakened empire. I'm sure Ulfric would've rather die fighting then to surrender to the Thalmor.


So what you're telling me is that the empire was so weak and so vulnerable that if they were to get attack again they're unable to defend themselves because they don't have the resources? Not good. Ulfric's Subordinates are not ignorant. Galmar made a good point when he said "The Empire is weak. That is why we fight them. Skyrim must be ruled by the strong." If the empire can't defend themselves then how are they able to defend other countries like Skyrim from the wrath of the Thalmor?



You're calling me a troll when you are derailing my thread. Very troll like behavior wouldn't you say? Now how about you stop calling me a troll and dare to contribute to at least something.

If your not a troll, then your a stomclaoked Biased poster, all your threads have something to do with "pro-stormcloak" or "Bad-Imperial" You are a troll...

I don’t think the empire deserves any loyalty or respect; it abandoned Hammerfell because the redguards wouldn’t give over large areas to the thalmor and left them to fight on their own. I know the excuse is used “if the empire hadn’t signed the peace treaty it would have been wiped out” but how can that be when the thalmor armies that had invaded cyrodiil had been annihilated when the imperial city was retaken and if the thalmor had any large military reserves Hammerfell wouldn’t have been able to fight the thalmor to a standstill. The emperor still had the remains of the army that retook the imperial city at his disposal as well as the military strength in hammerfell while the thalmor had played their cards and lost, but instead of doing what a true ruler should have done and protected the empires citizens and their rights he gave the thalmor everything they could have hoped for, and now he allows the thalmor to take people from their homes and “interrogate” them on their religious beliefs. Imo the emperor is weak therefore the empire is weak.
One last thing the excuse is also used that the thalmor are allowed to prowl the land looking for talos worshippers to maintain the peace but the thalmor lost huge amounts of personal as well as the humans, I may be wrong on this but humans are supposed to reproduce faster than elves and if that’s the case that after 30 years shouldn’t the humans have replenished their numbers more than the thalmor?

Numbers dont make a victory, the Thalmor army is better then both the empire's and the stormcloaks, Regular soldiers use magic and have high quality elven army, there most likley backed up by Bosmer archers and Khajit. Also if lore is correct the Thalmor most likely have a large force of goblin cannon fodder.

By "Direct Contact", I presume the Thalmor meant something more along the lines of the antagonism that Elenwen subjected him to at the Season Unending peace talks. Not "Psst. Here's some more supplies. Keep on weakening the Empire for us!"

Regardless of whether he's consciously a spy, a manchurian agent, or just easily manipulable, he is still doing exactly what they want him to: weaken the Empire for when Round Two comes around.


Soldier for soldier, yes... but the Thalmor army was completely decimated. Not "too battered to continue fighting" like the Legion, *DECIMATED*. And races of Men procreate faster than races of Elves.

Why didn't the Empire press the fight? First off, as mentioned before, their Legion was in tatters. Second, because of good subterfuge, the Thalmor managed to hide the fact that they got wiped. And third they didn't for the same reason the Allied forces dreaded the prospect of a mainland invasion of Japan in WWII: a fanatical populace.

But now, this time, there's a Dragonborn. Dragonborns have a historical precedent of making Summerset their bi...erm... Female Dog.

True numbers don’t make a victory but the sure help; also wouldn’t the imperial armies have magic from the Bretons? And I thought that things weren’t as rosy in the garden with the bosmer as the thalmor would like you to believe...well that’s how I took delphine’s description of things between the bosmer and thalmor when she asked the dragonborn to meet her contact

the thalmors really only true agents are the high elves and the khajits. The bosmers aint exactly loyal and considering most of the populations are wanderers etc, the thalmor pretty much controls the puppet govt, seeing how the bosmers dislike govt and polotics and have a reputation of rebelling against someone none bosmer controlling their country. The argonians follow the hist becore all others so theyll follow the thalmor against the empire until the hist says otherwise.
The khajits only follow due to the moon thing and I believe if another sitiuation happened like that, the khajots would go berserk against the thalmor.
The empire is on shaky ground as well. High rock and the brentons are only loyal bc their being watched but if skyrim went independent and didnt gain favorable relations to skyrim then u can count on high rock breaking away as well. Morrowind not much is known about the repairs or rebuilding so they are only somewhat useful. Cryodill was rocked pretty hard by not only the thalmor but as well as internal affairs and smugglers. Hammerfell was given up but they are doing well after fighting the thalmor and forcing them out.

Pretty much seems like its building up right for someone new to step in and bring everyone back tohether again, bc it needs to be a new empire at least seeing how the beloved septim empire died out 200 yrs ago and it seems the medes empire is fonished.

Would love to see the bosmers rebell against the thalmor with a great hunt though

The Thalmor had Bosmer allies when they took Valenwood. In fact the Thalmor in the Second Era consisted of both Altmer and Bosmer. Fact is we've no idea on Bosmer popular opinion of the Thalmor. Yes we do know that they carried out purges, but such had also been done against fellow Altmer. Sure there are probably discontent Bosmer, just as there are discontent Altmer. But we've no idea if there's enough anti-Thalmor sentiment to rebel any more than there could possibly be in Alinor.

So yes, that's my point. They won't accept the facts, they just simply jump on Ulfric's bandwagon because it's mildly relevant at the time, and completely disregard WHY that stuff happened, and what the possible consequences will be for everyone - Ulfric's drones are taking the situation at face value, an army of brainless yet devoted thralls if you will. Starting the Civil War might've been a fair idea later, but given the circumstances doing it now makes no sense, and again, I don't think Ulfric is that moronic - I think he has his own selfish motivations, and those uneducated and short sighted Stormcloaks who follow him fell for it.

The Empire - Including it's province of Skyrim's army - Has been defeated momentarily by the Aldmeri Dominion. Everyone has been preparing for another grand conflict in a Tamriel based Cold War, so what does Ulfric do? Incites a rebellion and splits one of the Empires greatest provinces in half, weakening the Empire and more so Skyrim as a whole. Great job Ulfric! On the verge of another great war with the Aldmeri Dominion you decide to splinter one of Tamriel's best hopes, but again, I'm pretending he's smarter than that and is just power hungry. Lucky break for the Aldmeri Dominion.

Also the Empire isn't supposed to defend Skyrim with just Imperials. A good portion of the Empires troops are in fact, Nords of Skyrim. No matter what way you cut the butter here, starting the liberation of Skyrim was short sighted, selfish, and incredibly stupid. Yes, Skyrim may deserve to be it's own sovereign nation, but that's not in anyone's best interest right now. Except for Ulfric, who would be crowned as high king of course.

its so much as WHY, im pretty sure they all knew the situation around the treaty, the thing they pissed off about is the continuual persecution and kidnappings allowed by the empire. The kidanappings and persecutions are not done by court or even made known, they are done secretly and thru interrigation, all of that with the ok from the empire.

Its like being outlawed to drink alcohol, but instead of getting arrested and going to court, they sneak in ur house or catch u when ur alone and bundle u up, pronouce ur guilty and then jail and interrogate you on getting info of other people who drink, sell, or talk about alcohol before they silently dispose u in unmark graves. People have gotten tired over it after 25 years and found someone to stand behind.

So check the facts, the people are pissed off at the empire since they are the highest power the thalmor the right to do all of that with no interference and cooperation from the empire.

Also read, ulfric didnt start the civil war, he went thru the legal nordic channels. Its when the empire stepped in an outlawed a legal action that turned it into a civil war.

They weren't defeated. Not, at least, until Mede gave the Dominion almost everything they wanted to begin with, snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory.

With the empire flailing and weak, cooperating with the enemy and selling out its provinces to save Cyrodiil, there is no time like the present. The issue is not whether Skyrim should go it alone or not- that is never what Ulfric has in mind- but that Cyrodiil and its so-called emperor can no longer lead.

Source? The Dominion's earlier incursions into Valenwood were also by force (see A Dance in Fire).

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Rising_Threat,_Vol._IV:

There are those who claim the combined Altmer and Bosmer forces greatly out-matched the Empire, but this is a farce. This short, savage campaign was won by the Thalmor even before first blood was drawn. They waited and watched their enemy, they chose where and when they would attack. The Thalmor were able to bring the full fury of their small contingent of Altmer and Bosmer to any of several Imperial strongholds.

And then there's this:

In one fell stroke, the Thalmor took a strategic foothold on the mainland of Tamriel and prevented any significant attempt the Empire could have made to invade Summerset Isle and depose the tyranny of the Thalmor. At the same time, they took a better vantage to continue to watch the Empire and wait. In so doing, they also revived the Aldmeri Dominion with their alliance to the Bosmer of Valenwood!

As for the second claim, that the 2nd Era Thalmor consisted of both Altmer and Bosmer, I present you a passage from From the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_3rd_Edition/Valenwood:

The unified elven kingdom of Valenwood and Summerset, the Aldmeri Dominion, was the most stable power in Tamriel until the coming of Tiber Septim. The new government of Valenwood was called the Thalmor, a congress of Bosmeri chieftains and Altmeri diplomats. While not particularly popular, the Thalmor proved better than the chaos of the previous years, and endured until Tiber Septim's armies swept it away.

On the other hand, I've seen no sign of recent Bosmer unrest in Valenwood. The only thing remotely resembling evidence for such is the mention that there were some purges carried out in the province.

OP. By the way, I noticed your PC looks a lot like Ulfric. You're not RPing his brother or something are you?

Fair enough, they did have some Bosmer allies. Shows the Bosmer are idiots and don't know what they're in for. The mention of purges is proof that there is unrest in Valenwood, however- Malborn is the only Bosmer we meet who comments on the Thalmor at all, whereas there are Khajiit agents working for the Dominion in Skyrim. If there was solid Bosmer support for the Thalmor now, it seems we'd see Bosmer agents as well, since they can move more freely in Skyrim.

As for a unified government being better, I'd agree with that, if the government we were talking about wasn't weak and corrupt.

BTW re Morrowind- I was talking about the empire intervening beyond just losing whatever remainder of troops it still had there (I don't recall any mention of legions there anyway?). That doesn't do the Dunmer much good.

So if the OP made a pro-imperial anti-stormcloak thread, would you still call them a troll?

If it was biased, almost no factual evidence, then yes.

Is Ulfric doing what he thinks is right for Skyrim? Sure, I reckon you could argue that. However, from what I can gather (of course Tullius' description of him is rather biased) he is only putting lies and thoughts into the Nords of Skyrim in an attempt to simply 'take' Skyrim for himself.

If Ulfric was truly doing the right thing for Skyrim, he WOULD NOT have created a war. Ulfric really expects to defeat the only thing keeping the damned Dominion out of Skyrim? If he was smart, he'd look forward into his plans and should be smart enough to know he alone can't hold out the Dominion without the help of the Empire. I do believe the Empire and Stormcloaks together may have had a chance.

The weather helps. Invading Skyrim is like invading Russia, except that it's winter all of the time. Suffice it to say, the thalmor would be completely out of their element trying to conquer it. As I've said earlier, I'm only just now playing through on the stormcloaks side, and I'm really starting to believe that they're alright. Besides, Tiber Septim himself said that it might be time for the Empire to end in Morrowind, and that was back when his dynasty was still in command. And after what he did there, as well as being the prophet in the Knights of the Nine in Oblivion, his status as a god can't really be questioned. In all likelihood, he's supporting the Stormcloaks, and I don't think that can be ignored.

ulcric did not start the war, the duel was legal in skyrim. The empire started the civil war by stepping in and making a legal action, illegal. The empire took the pretty much the closest thing skyrim has with democracy which is the moot, and made ulfrics claim in the moot illegal. The empire stepped in and pretty much openly tried to intervene with skyrims polotics. If the empire did not step in, chances are ulfric wouldnt have became high king bc pretty much half the jarls were against him and the other half for with one being on the sideline. Chances are toryggs wife woulda been nominated, but the empire stepped in and tried to dictate who was eligible.

So no, the empires what started the civil war, not ulfric. He actually went thru the legal forms to get nominated by the moot.

Doubtful. Even if Ulfric allowed a Moot to take place (He states that he's preventing one during the war), I doubt he'd honor its decision if it didn't go his way. And though nobody says this one way or the other, I wouldn't feel that safe sitting across the table from a king killer, especially when it comes to electing a new king and I don't want to vote for him.

The act of regicide that Ulfric committed doubles as an act of intimidation and coercion. It was done, not to illustrate that he had more right to be, or would make a better High King, but what he could and would do to someone who held the title other than him.

ok first, he dosent commit regicide. If u read the post, it was a legal action. For the nords its a simple process. Dont like a king then if ur a jarl challenge him to a duel. Whoevers strongest wins, the loser dies. Then they start the elections. Its something that hasnt happened often but it was there that everyone knew about the process. He didnt murder him and the using of the thuum is considered a nordic weapon. The actions ulfric pertrade in the duel was to demostrate for all who heard that he is the strongest of the strongest.
The empire has always allowed the nords and hell pretty much every country under its empire to keep their traditions and process of polotics.
The empire is the wrong for bannimg the legal movement, and they say its murder and that he shouted him apart, funny how most of the citizens dont even speak about the duel. Cmon, skyrim strength is physical power and confrontation. The empore strengths is potics and propaganda.
Look at real life and ingame, everytime another country tried to dictate its polotical system, theres always been a civil war.
But also this is a fictional story with fictional background, not real life. Thats how the process goes in skyrim BC once a king always a king and its passed down thru siblings. To become high king to change things or simply being the strongest to rule, thats what the duel is for. And its to the death. Ulfrics no murderer, the king knew that accepting he was gonna die, but hey thats a nord for ya.