I'm not really "younger," but I prefer options that are more grey because I dislike playing purely evil characters. That is, people who enjoy harming others for the sake of cruelty or some principled evil. I also dislike pure paladins, because that's boring. I prefer situations where generally good people have to decide whether they'll sacrifice some values and generally selfish, shady people are challenged in their ways, too.

I wouldn't mind continuing this side-tracked discussion. If someone makes a community post about it, I'll join in. I shouldn't continue the derailing of this topic with another response though.

I agree. Multiple outcomes and moral choices are the sole reason New Vegas quests are far superior to Skyrim quests.

Because of the superior amount of choices during quests in New Vegas, I got to know my 3 demensional character through dialogue and action. In Skyrim, I got to know the 3 dimensional world through my 1 dimensional character's eyes.

Yes, because the NPCs talk to me, and not with me. They generaly don't react to what I say, and almost all of my choices can be remade later if I change my mind.

really, that was a no brainer for me. turn her in=easy money.

I did say some. I know a lot of younger people don`t all think the same.

I just get curious why some are almost `fanatical` about not designating anything good or evil. But some things can only be described as `evil` when you look at some acts committed. Not everything some people think is `evil` is `evil`, but some you can have no doubt can only be classed as evil or the closest thing to `evil`.

Actually no, it`s not that simple. how can you believe that. That`s a very weak-willed point of view and one that makes society do `evil` things.

Just because society thinks it`s ok does not make it right. Just because some of us are forced to be silent about something society thinks is not evil, doesn`t mean we all agree.

For instance, I understand why we sometimes have to go to war and kill other people. that does not make it good to do. It is still evil imho to kill or take one single life. I undertsand why abortion takes place for women who don`t want to have an unwanted child; that doesn`t mean that i see it as `good` to do.

Just because we accept, don`t mean it`s a good thing.

All it means is that some of you got your way with something wrong and the rest of us failed to prevent it.

Same goes for cannibalism, executions, etc...

Again, only the weak willed say there`s no good or evil, it absolves them from any guilt when society collectively does a wrong thing..

And usually ony the evil willed take one group of people and call them weak because they disagree with them.

I agree with Good vs Evil, I just made a new topic regarding this... Im getting soo mad the fact I have to sacrafice my companion or hire helper in order to get Ebony Mail???? Ok soo I went online and looked for every possible way of not killing a follower or sacrificing... There should be an option to say " I will not follow your ways" (just example) but the quest should GET COMPLETED wether i got ebony mail or not... you know its always... Kill this, kill that, kill, kill... Im playing a good mage, I dont want to kill ANYONE, on top its really pissing me off I got Murder stat WTH???

I see it in terms of some things being for the greater good. Even selfish characters can justify bad things that way in video games, since they're often out to save the world. So for instance, doing something unsavory in a daedric quest that nets you a powerful artifact that helps you save the world... that doesn't make what you do good, but it does put it in a greyer light than if you just did it for the lulz. Or a good character doing something shady because it helps someone else, that's not an entirely good vs. evil matter, either.

If you are familiar with A Song of Ice and Fire, Ned Stark is an excellent example of someone who does principled good that screws over a lot of people. If he'd just been a little bit more grey, he might have done a lot more good in the end... or maybe not, who knows...

1. Just because good & evil don't exist in reality doesn't mean people don't have parameters. Society will always be forced to call something good or evil in order to thrive. Drawing the line is simply a matter of culture, time, & the people in charge.
2. Your opinion of the Nazis is biased, and assuming they didn't know what was good or bad and didn't care is ignorant.

Empathy is not universal. The soldiers & civilians of Nazi Germany, usually discluding the High Command, had great amounts of Empathy for each other. "Christian Morale" varys from denomination to denomination, and time & place. Christians can be pacifists or flat out sadists. They can duck & press people to death all day, pillage and torture, or give money to charities. It depends on when & where & why.

Again, your opinion.


I'm assuming you are labeling "war", abortion, cannibalism, & executions as evil? If so, where are you getting this from? Were you born with the knowledge or did you read it in a book? Either way it's your own biased opinion. If you aren't saying they are evil, then you're contradicting yourself.

like everyone else, we liked it a lot in fallout, why would you not carry over that positive?

There is a difference between 'no good or evil' and 'what is good or evil is what is seen as such by society'.

If you think that what you think to be good and evil has nothing to do with your upbringing, and everything that influenced it (eg. Parents, friends, religion, school, etc.), then you are fooling yourself.

I think every quest needs to this change.. atleast a "Good way" and a "Bad way". Yes the Alikir quest in Whiterun was awesome, really got me thinking on how i wanted to handle things when i had both sides story.. I was actually so torned with that quest that i still have not decided who to trust..

Some were quite good like the daedric quests...

I disagree I found a few of skyrims quests to have Moral choices that were morally ambiguousness .

CELEBRITY voice-acting, on the other hand...

Skyrim a lot of big-names doing voicework: Max von Sydow, Christopher Plummer, Michael Hogan, and Joan Allen.

THOSE talents are far from cheap.

There are similar decisions in some Daedric quests (eg. Vaermina's), but I get your point and agree that it would be nice if you could actually do something moral/immoral instead of having to follow a certain bunch of objectives to complete a quest in one single way.

FO3 had very few quests, about 60-70 or so with DLCs.

On topic, more choice would have been nice.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Take Dragon Age: Origins as example. How to deal with the Demons within the Circle. Whether to save the RedCliffe Village. Which Dwarven noble to support as King. Who will be supported as King/Queen. Whether to accept Morrigan's offer. Who deals the first blow. Who will you love, etc. add in a lot depth to the quests and gives the player a lot to think about. It is really sad DA2 does not live up to the standard.

There is one of the quest in Skyrim I'm really disappointed:
About the Daedric quest "The Whispering Door". Why there is only one way to finish it? Why can't my character report the cause to the Jarl? What can't it end up like the good ending of "Waking Nightmare"?


I appreciate there are more than one ending for this quest. When Erandur mentions regret to kill his previous friends, I am thinking "what if the player with high speech skills can corrupt him back to the faith of Vaermina"? This can offer one more ending for the quests.

Why there is only one achievement "Oblivion Walker" encourages evil acts but no achievement like "Welcomed Citizens" which rewards the player who entirely doesn't have Bounty or doing evil acts. Or something like rewards the player who do some good deeds? Or something like "Oblivion Banisher" which the players refuse all of the Daedric Quests?

The Forsworn Conspiracy. Amazing quest, it doesn't really have a good or bad choice, but two gray ones.

Or being a Thane in all the Holds.

I agree with the OP, a little more choice would go a long way towards making the game as much of a hook at 100+ hours as it is for the first 40 or so. I can understand it would be hard to make many radiant quests more branching -

"Kill the Giant at Cradlecrush Rock"
"But I want to side with the Giants..."

But more dialogue paths and quest choices would make many of the named quests much better. I love the game and think it's a work of art in many ways, but it is disappointing that for so much of it there is only one dialogue choice the player can make.

Though if you look hard enough, some quests DO have subtle consequences, but often you have to be quite shrewd.

E.g.