All builds feel inherently the same now without attributes. We need them back. Not to mention some variables that attributes effected in previous games are no where to be found in Skyrim.

Thanks for calling my opinion "stupid", it's good to know that we have reasonable, well spoken, and open minded individuals on these forums.

They don't feel even remotely the same to me at all. Attributes did nothing significant towards differentiating builds. At least nothing more significant than what we have now in Perks.

Yes, they do. Perks are not inherent. Attributes are. My Orc is just as strong as my wood elf. That's ridiculous. Not to mention some variables that attributes effected in previous games are no where to be found in Skyrim. And yes, attributes differentiated builds, and would even more if you put caps and limits on them, which Im for.

I've been going on about this series in these forums for a while now, AND NOBODY EVER SEEMS TO KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

If anybody here had played QFG, they'd know that Bethesda's TES world recedes in comparison. The environment, the characters, the stories, the colour of that world is something Bethesda cannot match. About the only companies I'd trust to (attempt to) match it are Rockstar and Valve.

Of course, QFG had a significantly different vibe than TES, and so it could afford to stray more from the bland mean, but the point stands- because there ARE ways to do mainstream/classic/trope/cliche fantasy and still make it interesting.

Are you saying that it's not stupid for nords who are openly racist to dark elves to worship your dark elf as a hero?

That's like saying someone born with zero art talent and someone born with very good art talent should be on the exact same level if they take one four hour class.

That isn't going to happen.

While I agree that the difference between the races is probably "unrealistic", with that I mean that the PC racet doesn't fit to his role in the lore, same about the atmosphere, the environment doesn't react as it should to my race often enough.

on the other hand, it would make things difficult if the game would treat me as my race should be treated. Alot of changes and more directions in each quest to fit for the players race... I think that considering that, its done well. Better than most RPGs ive seen. Atleast they look good and I can "act" as my character would act = as my race would.

Role Playing ,bro, the point is role playing .

Kids will complain about ANYTHING. Wow.

Exactly.

Don't every single race start out with the same, or almost the same stats? An Orc does the same amount of damage with a Sword that a Cat does. Don't many of the races start out with the same Health, Stamina, and Magicka as well?

Kids will also always offer no intelligent input into a conversation. Wow.

Yep, all the same. Perks help, but perks and attribute aren't mutually exclusive anyway. We need them both. and lets look at these perks. Does the option of doing more bleed damage, or more crit chance really make two builds feel all that different? Or that half the perks are just numerical damage variables? Or a fifth of magic perks are just skill requirements that half a magic schools spell level cost.

It seems peoples major beef with attributes are not the actual attributes, its how Oblivion specifically leveled you, and everything else. Or they didnt like that you could max them all. But those are two pretty distinct camps. With the latter not minding if attributes were in, just with limitations.

I believe that the different races add the right amount and the right kind of diversity. Picking a race based on the role you wish to play will give a small head start with regards to the skills. However, this is a very small difference since the lower your skill level, the faster they increase through use and it doesn't take long at all before you have caught up anyway, had you picked a non suited class.

Then there is the racials. They were kept small enough that it meant that the person didn't pick one race over the others because they have the "best" racial.

It really comes down to aesthetics as far as race choice goes. They did this on purpose and have even mentioned it in interviews why. They didn't want one race to be the "best" race and they didn't want you to be forced to pick certain races based on the class you wanted to play. So they kept the difference small but still present. The primary difference is aesthetics and I think the game is all the better for it.

Sure, they could've had more in game reactions based on race choice but the game wasn't without any. I've received a couple comments on not being a Nord (especially since I sided with the Stromcloaks). The best example is when I told Ulrick that 'Nords aren't the only people to call Skyrim home' or something along those lines. I've even received a comment or two on being a Kahjiit specifically.

This is not an intelligent topic. This makes it difficult to respond with meaningful statements.

This thread ought to be locked.

People seem to be confusing "known for" for "limited to"

A high elf warrior has the same learning curve as an orc.The only difference is orcs would have a background that gives them a head start.

As far as stats go If your stats can increase like they did in TES starting stats have the same effect as LARPing.None.

If your starting stats are what they stay for the whole game there is a point.

Perks and Attributes would have been very nice.

Play an Orc, start with additional health and defense (armor). Pump some extra points into health and defense. Suit up in your Heavy Armor then add the perks that give a % boost to the Armor you have. My Armor rating just sky rocketed. While you could do the same for a Wood Elf it won't be, or shouldn't be, nearly as high as an Orc's.

And yet so many have replied with intelligent responses and meaningful statements. Huh.

So discussions on how choice of race could have a bigger effect on the gameplay experience is not an intelligent topic and is not worthy of discussion? Nobody asked you to post in this thread and if you have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation I suggest you take yourself elsewhere.

I'd like to see something between Option A (vanilla Skyrim) and Option B (your Skyrim). It doesn't feel right that people are locked out of being amazing X, Y or Z simply because of race. It doesn't work that way IRL, either.

Instead, having your race and racial abilities actually matter in-game in some way, story-wise or quest-wise, would have been pretty awesome. E.g. you have to protect important person A from being killed by important person B, but you can't harm important person B in the process; if you're an Imperial, you could use your Emperor's Voice (or whatever it's called) to calm B long enough for you to escape unharmed; if you're an Argonian, you can use your water breathing to breath under water and to help A stay under water long enough that B vanishes.
This isn't an ideal example, but you understand what I mean.
Etc.

Ok what you really mean is you wished they had done more efforts for racial context.

I agree.

One that strikes me is the 99% dark elves popultion in windhelm, capital of the stormcloack, or the endless flood of elven, especialy high elves advisors to stormcloaks leaders. seems a bit weird.

This could be interesting because it would mean the game could be replayed in totally different ways. If you chose an imperial then you have to play WITH the imperials and if you choose a Nord it means you want to join Ulfric and the thalmors more friendly wih High elves and hostile to Nords. The race powers doesnt make any difference, but some sort of limitation could spice the game, like being only allowed to trade with one faction.I never use the race powers because being able to sweet talk or to shield for 60 secs once a day is not really useful. The birthsigns were more useful than the powers.
About race bonus it would mean all bretons are mages, all redguards are warriors and all khajiit are thieves, but precisely, in game it doesn't work like this. Your initial choice has no consequences. A kahjitt is allowed in town and an altmer is not seen as a potential ennemy by the talos priest. And afer some levels all characters are identical. Unlike Oblivion It is sometimes hard in game to see a real difference between imperials, redguards and nords. And the player has no cultural background, except a supposed "criminal past" just because imperials wanted to cut his head for some unknown reason. Here, again, we don't have any clue and it makes no difference. The presumed criminal can be a fierce defender of law and order or a petty pickpocket. Too much freedom leads to incoherence.

Of course you can play it yourself and imagine a background but the comments of NPC and their reaction is always the same.It was already the problem in Morrowind when you played a dunmer and the other dark elves called you "outlander", not only the ashlanders but ALL dunmers and even some high elves, just as if they were more dark elves than your character.

Ok, you want a response, here. If Bethesda said hey lets only put on race in the game, let them play as only Nords. HAHA the hardware serving this forum would have gone up in smoke. There are different races in the story and the story world. So if you could only be a Nord then you'd say "Hey, why would I want to be a Mage, a nord should be a warrior. Why is Mage a possible way to play". This game is an open world and meant to be played as the end user sees fit. You determine how Skyrim fairs and what goes on in your part of the world. So you can play from many of the different racial backgrounds. Though most people don't play as a Nord, or a Breton... THey play as the Dragonborn. You are the DRAGONBORN, you are special, you are chosen. This is why you can go places and be treated one way and the rest of your race would be treated otherwise.

Bethesda made a game. In their eye. They coded something that would portray the story that they wanted to, that their games designers dreamed up. You can give all the impressions of the game that you like. You can tell the world what you think of it. In the end Betheda delivered the experience they wanted. It's borderline ludicrous to think that you in your living room, den, or wherever you play should determine anything Bethesda did with this product to be flawed.

So back to my original though, this discussion is [censored]. Again as I've said before if you don't like it now, take it to GameStop, you'll get $30.00 for it. PC players, well we know once it's cracked open it's ours forever as with any software.

Right, I have said that I do not want to see 'X race can't be X job class,' because that is what is actually limiting.

A few racial traits are negligible. Night Eye and Claws for Kats hardly make an impression on the game. Underwater Breathing is also fairly negligible.

Haven't read most of this topic, but coming from a Game Designer's point of view, it would make more sense that a race that is known for its magical ability would be better at being a mage. However, i also think that other, less magical races (such as Orcs, etc) should still be able to become as proficient a mage as, say, a Breton, BUT only after some hard work.

It also makes sense that a 'warrior' race, such as Redguards or Orcs would do more damage with melee as they are naturally stronger and better at fighting, but they should also be able to harness magicka better after training - but training a lot more than a Breton or High Elf would have to do.


As for the story, yes, a Khajiit shouldn't be able to join the Stormcloaks unless he can prove that he can be useful to the Stormcloaks. If a Khajiit can help defeat the Legion and help the Stormcloaks, i think they could make an exception to his race. A Nord wanting to join would probably be accepted straight away, or have a more easy time convincing them of his worth.



As it is, its not something that bothers me entirely. Once the CK comes out, i will be able to see what can be changed, but until then, its something i can live with. Although i agree Beth could have done more work on it, instead of treating all races the same after the start of the game. I can see why they did it (so that a person can play how he wants as the race he wants) but there should be some negative effects to choosing a race.