You and I have completely different takes and tastes I see. Now I can't say about your console but on PC its been smooth sailing and almost bug free for me. I'll ust bow out for awhile since now I'm reminded how rewarding and fun Skyrim is for me compared to 99% of other games.

Skyrim has a great landscape, dungeons, and has a great backdrop on the story.
But the landscape is pretty much devoid of consequences anx with the wonderful backdrop they failed to live up to the standard in execution.


If obsidian had done the game and was allowed the 5 years that bethesda had, this is what we would have gotten.
Better combat with different weapons doing different power atks.
More variety in clothes and armor.
Consequences for our actions.
Npc disposition and a reputation system would be intact.
Different factions would have different reactions to us.
The quests would have been better.
The crafting system would have been implimented better.
Charectors would have a backstory.
Roleplaying would have been easier and more accessible.
There would have been larger amount of factions to join.
No one would have been essential, which means we could have brought down any guilds whenever we wanted to and in our own way.
We would have been able to kill either ulfric or tullious wayyy before the end of the civil war.
We wouldnt have radiant quests but actual well written and thought out quests.
Guild quests wouldnt have been save the world at multiple turns but more realistic and more down to earth and doing what the guilds do.


Basically I dare say if obsidian got a hold of tes, we would have another morrowind on our hands.

WHAT ABOUT DAGGERFALL!

I cant get daggerfall to work on my PC so I cant say, even though bc of that u might be right as far as release if we talkong about on ps3.. But then again skyrim also had this problem lol.

So I stand by morrowind

Uhm, your character didn't leave any vault. Play the game, pay attention to the story, then complain about it!

It seems you don't really know anything about New Vegas! At least your actions had consequences and the game had a high replay value, since there were various endings you could choose, depending on your actions.

The story and NPCs were very well written and the DLCs had an immense depth to it. Way more depth than Skyrim can ever hope for.

Now, being an original TES fan, I have to say that Bethesda should stick with the TES genre, but let Obsidian handle Fallout 4! I also hope that Bethesda learned something concerning writing and story and cause and effect for their next TES game. I'm really disappointed with Skyrim. At first I was giddy as a little kid at Christmas time. I pre-ordered Skyrim, I fell in love with the world and the dragons, but after my around 300 hours of playing, I just couldn't handle the dumb NPCs and guards anymore... LOL

Fallout New Vegas is miles ahead of Skyrim... MILES ahead!

I liked New Vegas more than Fallout 3, but TES should only ever be made by Bethesda.

Memorable characters.
Balanced gameplay.
Weapon diversity.
Multiple ways to complete a quest.
Great dialogue.
Choice that matters.
Ending slides that make you feel good about what you did.
Attributes.
Skills that matter.
Racial traits.
Perks that are unique.
Less generic dungeons.
And in the words of Jason Bergman: "MOAR!"

also it would have been done with ideas proven that worked, fitted, or players wanted instead of every go aroumd trying to reinvent the wheel with less.

One takes what was given and improves and adds to it.
One takes away and simplifys things.

Mmm wonder which company does which?

But do agree Bethesda does way bwtter on landscape and exploration, everything pretty much else obsidians proved to be superior.

I think Obsidian should stick with Fallout and Bethesda should stick TES. Even though there are problems with Elder scrolls games I still enjoy them. We have no idea what would happen if Obsidian took over from Bethesda. Who knows they might create an artstyle people hate. I think it's fine for Obsiadian to stick with fallout. If I want to play an Obsidian game then I have a choice and I can just play fallout.

No, you have. In that list were Oblivion's unique weapons that were never fixed (example: Molag Bal's mace) and Blood on the ice.
After all the patches, Bethesda never fixed several leveled items in Oblivion that either leveled incorrectly or their function didn't work at all.

Also on the list is the quest "Blood on the Ice," which, if you can complete without a glitch, I'd love to see a video walkthrough of it. I'm afraid to touch the damned thing until they patch it.



And how exactly am I ignorant?
Do you even know what ignorance means?
Ignorance means the lack of knowledge, which makes literally no sense in this discussion since I'm citing both examples from New Vegas and Skyrim. How am I lacking knowledge on either?


FO3's world realistic?
Please excuse me while I blow your argument out of the water. Ahem:

Little Lamplight

There you go. Now that we've got that taken care of....

As for the three archetypes....yes you can mix magic, combat and stealth as you please, but tell me....How does your mace character play any different from your sword character? How does your Light armor character play any different from your heavy armor character? How does your two handed character play any different from your one handed character? How do ANY of your characters that utilize stealth kill enemies differently?

That's my point, the differences are minimal. Absolutely minimal. If you want to make a list of "different ways to approach the enemy" then your list for Skyrim will probably have ~3 different ways, with any other ways being a mix of the first three (for example, instead of "charge in and brawl" or "summon a bodyguard while frenzying half the enemies" it becomes "summon a bodyguard then charge in").
New Vegas? What different builds approach situations differently? Just to name a few:

-Shotgun users ("juggle" enemies in first-person, enemy DT is an issue)
-Melee users ("juggle" enemies, exploit VATS in between and utilizing cover is a must)
-Unarmed users (utilize VATS to stun enemies, utilizing cover to close the gap is a must)
-Snipers (abuse sneak, aim, don't screw up, Fast Shot is optimal)
-Automatic weapons (proper ammo type is often key, Trigger Discipline is optimal)
-Cowboy weaponry (Cowboy perk ideal, Hand Loader ideal, high agility and/or Rapid Reload is ideal, afterwards sneaking works best)
-Modern weaponry (Grunt is ideal)
-Explosives (lay mines, get Heave Ho! so Grenade launchers have "perfect" aim, mind your distance from the enemy, try to group enemies)
-Energy weapons without meltdown (Get high luck, high repair, perks to manage repairs and carrying weight are ideal)
-Energy Weapons with meltdown (Same as above but mind your distance from the enemy, try to group enemies)
-Automatic energy weapons (get ED-E and get all his Lonesome Road perks, get Laser Commander)

Just a few, but really, the key difference? Your character can and can't do certain things. For example a character with Heave Ho! is simply going to have a far easier time aiming with grenade launchers than a character without it. Your character with Trigger Discipline is going to use automatic weapons better than a character without it. Your character with Better Criticals and the end-game perk (you can only pick one of three) Lucky to be Alive is going to be a god with the weapon "Old Glory," but your character with Heavy Handed will think Old Glory is a piece of [censored]. It's impossible to be good at everything, BUT this makes each character feel unique and they truly perform, play and handle differently, so that each new character feels almost like you're playing a different game entirely. Skyrim lacks differences like this and limits them to ~3 playthroughs.

The SPECIAL and other perks will greatly change each of those. A sniper with Fast Shot is already something different from a Sniper with Trigger Discipline. An unarmed user with Heavy Handed is already quite different from an Unarmed user without it. A Melee user with low STR is already quite different from a melee user with higher STR.

With Skyrim? The only difference you'll see is magic character vs. non-magic. A magic-focused character can use all spells but has less health, a non-magic-focused character can't use all spells but has more health. That's it. Otherwise, any character can do anything, and you certainly don't mind if one character does better damage with one handed rather than two handed, or maces instead of swords; it all plays exactly the same.



This post basically sums up why we need balance in single player RPGS. Click the link back to this person's post and read it.
Skyrim lacks this. Whereas J. Sawyer is figuring out a way to make that pistol you get at the start of the game a viable option for the ENTIRE game, Skyrim is going "here's a steel sword. It's special qualities are UUUUUUHHHHHHHHH~.....It's weaker than Elven but stronger than iron." EVERY WEAPON FEELS THE SAME. In New Vegas, each weapon is unique. The weapon you use defines your character about as much as your character's stats.

Skyrim doesn't even have this concept. This is a level of depth where Obsidian is playing chess, Bethesda is playing checkers.

This point alone is enough for me to think anyone who says "Skyrim has better gameplay mechanics" has no idea what the hell they're talking about and hasn't even played New Vegas. If you know of this feature of New Vegas and have experienced it and STILL think Skyrim has better gameplay mechanics, please explain why. I'd love to know.


Props on actually finding an invisible wall that affects gameplay.
...yeah, just good job. I generally ignore the critique about invisible walls because the people who bring it up are like "OMG I can't believe this invisible wall is keeping me from getting TO THE VERY TOP OF THIS EXTREMELY STEEP HILL I WAS STRUGGLING TO CLIMB." Yeah, [censored] man. How are we supposed to enjoy the game if we're not allowed to reach the top of hills in the middle of nowhere that, visually, look like they'd be impossible to climb from the get go?

Makes me wonder how many people playing Skyrim do nothing but find little mountains and hills and spend all day jumping up the rocky sides of it, thinking it's the greatest game ever when they reach the top...

Obsidian should do Fallout
Bethesda should do TES
Both would benefit from consulting with each other over their weak points

i prefer they work together on both games. Although i liked FO:NV storytelling and hold it in high regard, i prefer FO3 world and atmosphere.TES can also benefit from Obsidian's writing.

I don't think I'll ever understand the mindset of...

"I just did a very boring quest for the Companions where I was told to 'teach that guy a lesson' and I neither know what the lesson was, what they did wrong or why I beat the crap out of that person...
BUT IT'S OK BECAUSE I SAW A PRETTY FLOWER ON THE WAY BACK TO JORRVASKR."

Obsidian will never do a TES game.

I am personally not a big fan of the Bethesda developing skills.. I like what they do..but the style isn't my type of game.. Fallout 3 was pretty cool..Not as good as New Vegas..Skyrim... had horrible writing... well the dragon crap quest did.. the Civil war was really nice.. if only they focused more on it.

Uh, New Vegas was only good because Obsidian is a team of people that worked on the first Fallouts. They know the story inside and out, while Bethesda just barely tacked on it. if Obsidian worked on Skyrim, it would be a similar result of what happened in Fallout 3. Plot holes and unrelated factions and confusing stories.

I agree about the bugs and glitches but if they had only developed storyline and characters I think the game would have been a lot better.

Yeah 3 did have a great atmosphere, unfortunately Bethesda didn't use it correctly and messed a lot up

This fails to explain why Bethesda, the father of the TES series, somehow turned Skyrim's storylines into an absolute train wreck, however.

i don't see how having people from the first fallouts contributed to the overall depth like richer rpg elements, followers having a background and interesting personal quests that effect how they feel about you and 5 to 6 dialogue options and 5 to 6 different ways to finish a quest that impacts the world around the player. They're a talented team regardless.

Honestly, they appealed to the masses. They wanted something that would give them 10x more fans. And a Conan-esque Dragonslayer is a very cliche money-making story.

But it was still better than Oblivion.

There were invisible walls all over FO3. By the metro tunnels in the inner city rubble wall. I've climbed to the top of the rubble several times but I can't jump over it despite nothing being there.

I never said it was realistic. You have blown nothing out of the water.


Mace vs sword - And? That wasn't your argument.
Light armour vs Heavy armour - My light armour charactes are built with speed in mind, to get in and out quickly whilst avoiding fighting too many enemies at once. My heavy armour characters are built to take what's thrown at them.
Two handed vs One handed - Again, this is a speed vs. power thing.
Stealth vs Stealth - One of my stealth characters uses distractions to get around unseen or to sperate people for individual, up close kills. The other does everything from a distance.

Which hell, if Bethesda is gonna sell out, then maybe I don't want them in charge. TES is theirs so no I'm not gonna demand Obsidian be allowed to make a TES title, but do I think Obsidian could do it better? Possibly. Whatever the reason, it's still a reason. Obsidian didn't sell out and do an overdone cliché story for New Vegas, but rather a deep an intriguing one about philosophies clashing that many 16 year old players raged at because they didn't understand the depth. I prefer a developer with artistic integrity, personally.

Its till mystery to my why they bought fallout IP, they basicaly took up themes and names, took them out from original context. They could easly just made a new universe from scratch, just... change the names



Here i fixed this for you