It is about time, but sadly all the NCR supporters will be frustrated. However they fail to see how many people who chose yes man, house, and the Legion will be annoyed, I would only accept a NCR canon victory if I can bring it down and make it crumble.

I would expect Mr. House or independent as a victory, it seems most likable, NCR would add very little advancement to the story, Mr. House, what would he do? How will the independent faction carry themselves out? Are Caesars legion ready for another attack? Will we see more of the Legion?
NCR on the other hand "look at our rangers aren't they cool? Yeah join us we are making the government again woo, we have a military uniform, oh hey lets expand again yeah wooo" That just screams boring to me, after playing Fallout 2 and hearing the NCR would be in it I was very interested, turns out they were just a bunch of A holes. I personally am tired of having them shoved in my face (Like the brotherhood of steel F3 killed all love I had for them).

What I want: Mr House, Independent, Caesars legion
What I expect: Mr House, Independent
What would make me rage like the fist of the north star: NCR

What I Want: Yes Man
What I expect: NCR, then turned into the antagonist role


I want Yes Man to be the canon, just because Yes Man is pure gold, and gave me so many good laughs. Great choice by selecting Dave Foley for him.
Other than that, I'd trust an AI like Yes Man more than a 200+ year old Zombie-in-a-fridge who obviuosly has taken over many many of Howard Hughes' strange habits.
Still, I don't see it happening, as it would be difficult to develop a plausible tale out of it.
It is, after all the player choice ending, and would somehow require to personalize the Courier, who has been made a pure projection field for all kinds of players for a reason. I don't see this happening.
Yes Man alone just doesn't have enough substance to allow for a good story built around him, although I'd love to meet him and his more assertive personality :laugh:
House doesn't have a vision going beyond New Vegas, his role is too regional, and putting him into the centre would be like telling the same story a 2nd time.
Ceasars Legion is too backwarded and barbarian to warrant them being the big antagonist a 2nd time.

Overthrowing (or changing back) an NCR which has lost its grip to its founding ideals and has turned into a huge corrupt fascist empire is probably the easiest story to tell.
With Kimball and other scum like Moore in charge, it could be told in a plausible manner.

... I'm OK with this

you should make it a poll

Poles attract the worse sort of people. I can see 70 votes for NCR with no reasons whatsoever.

I think it will probably be NCR or independent. CL would be cool. Maybe fight them later on when they're stronger.

Yes man, obviously, will be canon.

At least to me.

This will allow them to set a future game in California and not have the NCR being some ridiculous superpower.

NCR winning would pretty much end any other civilizations forming (Enclave is gone, CL would have suffered heavy losses, and BoS is slowly dying out), so things would get quite boring. Legion, on the other hand, would completely crush the spirit of Vegas and what it stands for. Thus, House is the only logical canon ending, for me, because he is trying to make Vegas the amazing pre-war city it once was. Yes Man has too many loose ends to cover, so it's not too practical.

I think either House or Yes Man will be canon, not from a Fallout perspective, but from a Courier perspective. Think about it. Mr. House saved you from death, offers you the chance of a lifetime, and you just say "no"? I think it will be a Vegas faction winning, but that's me.

I hope an NCR victory becomes canon, for several reasons:

1. It's [censored] off all the HUUUUR GRIMDARK people wanting more dark and edgy with the Legion.
2. House is yet another aging relic of the Old World that would only drag everyone else down the same road.
3. Yes Man would lead only to more chaos and disorder in the whole region.

/sarcasm

Now, the real reason. They're actually making progress. The legion is a pathetic throwback to 2000 years ago and all the nastiness humankind managed to learn itself out of. House is an inhuman tyrant with delusions of grandeur.

NCR, for all it's faults, is actually a force for stability and order. They're civilized in a manner that only the East Coast BoS has even come close to matching. They're a hope for the future and a chance at rebuilding humanity (or at least North America) into something greater than what had come before, with all the trials and hardships that would entail.

But yeah, no storytelling possibilities there at all. Really. None whatsoever. Not enough grimdark.

Not really, it's easy to fix.

"The Courier ruled Las Vegas for the rest of his/her life. Then Yes Man finished his upgrades and the city became very different."

Mister House winning doesn't work for me because, bluntly, he's much worse than NCR in terms of representing a "threat" to Wasteland society. With all of his technology and industrial knowledge, he's as bad as the Calculator ending for MWBOS for rebuilding civilization. Mister House is basically a choice to rebuild human civilization at the cost of all civil liberties and self-determination (i.e. establishing a Neutral Parent Figure to rule over you and your children and children's children).

Yes Man halts NCR's unchecked growth and also is probably the ending most players would prefer.



In the Courier's case, I think being treated as a lacky and paid half the cost of a snowglobe was what started the ball rolling for Mister House's demise.

"Oh Benny shot you? Well, you can be the NEW Benny."

Given the hell you've gone through is House's fault, I think the Courier probably resented being treated as House's Wayland Smithers.



1. This is true, I support happy endings.

2. House is a dictator who wants to rule the world forever. I admire Howard Hughes in the real world but I wouldn't want humanity being his perpetual slave.

3. Chaos and Disorder? Yes. Freedom? Yes. It's a choice between security and freedom. Yes Man is a choice to install self-determination at the cost of creature comforts, something I think is a admirable choice.



Yes. The only problem is, in the end, they're no different from Mister House. They're not here for the Mojave's self-determination. They're installing democracy by conquest. Ironically, doing the same thing the Roman Empire did by conquering regions and "civilizing" the natives while filling them with colonists. Yes, it'll be tough in Yes man but if you believe in liberty over security then it's the better ending.

Yes Man is freedom without responsibility. It's outright anarchy that can only be contained by someone more ruthless than everyone else trying to claw their way to the top, and god help you if you're one of the poor ignored SoB's caught in the crossfire. NCR is freedom within the constraints of Law and Order. You're free, but there's duties and responsibilities that come with it. You will be safe and fairly treated however, so it's a pretty balanced deal.

Yes Man is hardly the better ending. It may be better in the short term, when people are flush with victory and happy, but after that things will quickly go to hell unless the Courier really steps up.

The NCR ending though, brings in an already tried and capable government, a battle hardened army, and established trade routes. It may not be the freewheeling "freedom" of the Yes Man, but it's sure as hell better than a lawless region where only the strong can survive.

What seems most natural to me would be the House ending, because it's a bit strange hearing a story about a courier getting shot in the face, then saved by a robot belonging to Mr House. (well, "sort of" belonging to him)
and then after all that he/she tracks down the man that shot him/her, blah blah blah, and then meets the man owning the robot that saved him/her, and then figures out that Mr House is also the creator and Saviour of the strip and one of the most intelligent (Love him or hate him this is most likely true) men in the wastes, only to kill him because the courier doesn't agree with him or they want a different faction in power. - and that to me seems a bit of an unmotivated/random thing to do seeing as the player is usually depicted as a hero of sorts.

Also for the lore of the fallout universe, a city being run by robots is certainly very unique and adds a lot of flavor to the game. So what if he turns it into a thriving metropolis, there needs to be some civilization for the Wastelanders.

Another reason being that with all the NCR presence already in Vegas they may think they have a chance of overthrowing House, but this would make them vulnerable to a legion attack at the dam, which both sides would probably suffer heavy loses from.
making it easy for House to push out all the remaining NCR and legion from the dam and Vegas.

The only way any of the other factions would have a good chance without suffering huge losses would be if the courier killed Mr House,
which probably wouldn't happen unless the courier had very little morals (I find it funny that I'm saying this seeing as I've never kept house alive.)
and adding to that, in a more real situation it would be VERY difficult for the courier to just waltz on in and kill Mr House, because remember you are the first outsider to walk into the lucky 38 in 200 years.
That makes me wonder, what if some opportunistic raider just shot at the lucky 38 with a rocket launcher?

If you upgrade the Securitrons, this is completely *not true.* According to my ending, at least, the Securitrons safely put down any and all instability with a minimum loss of life. Likewise, that was the whole point of Yes Man's quests - to remove any and all threats to your reign and make sure that the Strip is stable with the Three Families under you control and the enemies to your reign weakened.

My Courier, at least, eliminated the Fiends (which the NCR couldn't do) and the Powder Gangers (ditto). Likewise, they encouraged the Khans to LEAVE the Mojave which results in Wyoming becoming stabilized as opposed to being a lawless Wasteland. Throw that in with defeating the Legion and that goes a long way to bringing peace the region.

(Really, allying the Khans with NCR is a short term benefit that does long-term harm since Wyoming becomes a paradise thanks to the Khans merging with the FOA)



The game's sidequests I think are where the decision is mostly made. Without doing the sidequests, NCR is effectively going to be gutted badly as much as if the Courier doesn't upgrade the Securitrons as well as doing none of the sidequests. McCarran horrifically damaged by the Fiends, Camp Golf slaughtered, the Strip hit by Omerta attacks, The Kings going to war with NCR's troops (presumably more rioting than outright war), the Khans on Caesar's side, etc. etc.

Really, NCR only "wins" at Hoover Dam because of the Courier.

Besides, it's not like NCR got the worst out of the deal if the Courier goes Yes Man either. They get a (possibly) peaceful withdrawal, a buffer state, and a new trade partner.



Again, if the Courier doesn't go to MAMMOTH lengths to resolve their problems, NCR's army is gutted and blasted by the Legion and their defeat is at a ridiculously high price. All of the same good that the NCR is allowed to benefit from is available in the Yes Man ending. Likewise, the lack of taxes on New Vegas as well as the Securitrons will provide Vegas with an exceptionally powerful skilled military as well as a huge starting "seed" fund for building up New Vegas' infrastructure.

A Good Karma Courier will have a slightly more chaotic Wasteland but not one necessarilly where things are bad. All of the towns I dealt with, for example, were propsering.

(Goodsprings especially)



I think it makes thematic sense because you realize Benny is just a pasty and the real person responsible for you getting shot in the head is effectively the man who set up the situation in the first place. Mister House rescued you but only because he wanted you to be his lackey and get him back his chip. In the end, you killing House pretty much frees you from the scheme where you were nearly killed for his greed.

No, House isn't evil, but him winning means Vegas will essentially be a nation of slaves.

A snowglobe if you will with him as their Tin God. A benevolent Tin God? Yes. But it's the same reason I hate the Calculator ending for Fallout Tactics.

None of the endings will become "canon" because it isn't possible to square the circle of "if it's in the game it's canon" with multiple endings. So if it's necessary for a future plot line they'll just have such and such faction taking over.

Eh, we saw F1 and F2 become canon with the "happy" endings.

I believe the most likely endings are House or Yes Man. The reason being is it maintains the balance of power of both the Legion and the NCR making them equally viable for a return in future games.



True,
Fallout 2 establishes the the hero of Fallout 1 was male and karmically good. For one the NCR put a statue of the Vault Dweller infront of the NCR's Hall of Congress. He' quite revered in the wasteland. Marcus says that if more people were like him there would have been no need for project unity or the master's plan. We didn't have much on the canon of Fallout 2 until New Vegas. Marcus as a former companion of the Chosen One provides the insight we need. Marcus refers to the Tribal as a friend, and Marcus wouldn't fondly remember someone who wasnt a good guy.

+1
(Its great when someone has already had the same thought as you, saves so much time.)

I expect House
I go with Legion
I dont expect NCR

On a side note, Fallout 1 and 2 wasnt a happy ending at all, it was more of a bittersweet ending, You got expulsed from the Vault in Fallout 1, and in 2, some towns dont have a good endings even if you helped, IE Broken Hills, the town dissappears even if you help the Mutants and the humans to live togehter

Perhaps I don't understand this canon thing as well as I should. Perhaps I don't care enough.

It just means the "official" story.

It isn't House's fault The Courier signed up on his own free will to take that package.


Over-stating much? House doesn't want to 'rule to world' forever. He has Vegas in his hands because he knows what is best for it's revival. In seven years time, he's gotten rid of those pathetic tribal identities of the Three Families and made them into sophisticated human beings. He's brought back the old Vegas from before the War back to life, and ultimately, while he doesn't care for every person and every problem, he does care about the revival of humanity. I can't stand this ridiculous mentality that's been floating around around. All this 'NCR IS RIGHT CAUSE IT IS DEMOCRACY!' :facepalm:

So what if he doesn't care about EVERY person? No successful civilization was ever in the history of man, successfully built because someone listened to every teeny tiny problem in the world.

Actually, my belief is NCR is actually the enemy of a democratic and free New Vegas. Likewise, I don't believe Mister House is evil. I believe he's solidly on the Neutral spectrum being an authoritarian technocrat, who nevertheless has the interests of the people in mind in "big picture" if they're fundamentally irrelevant on an individual level. New Vegas is treated as his personal fiefdom with him as King but he's a damn sight better than the vast majority of rulers out there.

The issue is that Mister House intends to live forever and his intention is to direct the flow of human technology and industry from New Vegas, which is a bit different from world domination (my apologies). He has, perhaps better than most, reason to dislike and distrust democracy since the "tyranny of the majority" resulted in humanity's near extinction and 70 missiles aimed at his hometown despite the fact that Las Vegas is of no military value and House almost certainly wants nothing to do with the war. Then there's the fact NCR explicitly wants to take his land from him.

I think Mister House is not a fascist but a neo-feudalist. Bizarrely, he's living the same problem as the Brotherhood of Steel. He just doesn't realize he's behaving like a Medieval King with Vegas as his "rightful" domiciles.

My issue with Mister House is that he doesn't have any mandate from the people. He's a warlord, nothing more. Did he save New Vegas and the Mojave? Explictly yes. Does that entitle him to own it and all its people? No. He rules over New Vegas using his Securitrons to enforce an order of his own vision and establishment, shaping and molding it to his specifications. The fact he's DRASTICALLY less malevolent than Caesar and more competent than NCR makes him a valid choice for ruler.

The price, however, is that New Vegas remains under an immortal dictator.

Actually, House isn't going to live forever, had his machine had that capability, his body would look the same early-mid 50's as he had when he stepped into the device. He will surely die within the next 200 years without any outside probabilities coming to play.

Your idea of House is misconstrued. House doesn't want to rule over people. His motive is 'play by my rules and you're free to do as you wish.'

Notice House does not abuse anyone, you pay your dues, and you live your life. Any problems on the strip are caused by dissidents. Who want's to cause trouble amongst the Whtie Gloves? The cannibals, which are mad because cannibalism is forbidden. Who amongst the Omertas? Those promised lies by Caesar. Who amongst the Chairmen? Benny, who is so greedy and cannot accept his station, which, compared to most in the wasteland, is pretty damn cushy. All in all, House only controls Vegas and it's outlying areas, and you know what? He's okay with that. If was as cruel as you make him to be, he wouldnt ask you to save Kimball, while this is player optional, it strongly helps Vegas when you play nice. The way I play F:NV, I work for House whilst ensuring good relations with NCR, thus ensuring a diplomatic future with them. The way I see it, and think it would work out, House would work with NCR via trade and rebuilding. Why? Because their cons counter their pros. House has the genius, NCR has the man power to reconstruct. In due time, the two working together would be mutually benificial as well as saving Man that much further.

Now, my reason for hating Indepent/Yes-Man is because, despite the misguided belief of users here. YOU don't take over Vegas, you topple the big three factions, and hailed a hero, that's it. The Courier isn't the ruler. The idea of an anarchy angers me. The Legion are savages with misguided goals. NCR's claiming Vegas would spell the doom of Vegas and NC.

Laissez Faire Rulership is still Rulership. Mister House takes what he needs from the Wasteland. The tribals I believe we're meant to believe he shaped into essentially memories of his old 2070s image of Vegas. The Tops, The White Glove Society, and the Omertas are basically immitating 1950s Las Vegas (with some twists) because House wants them to be that way. He enforces his laws to maximize capitalist gain for himself and the reconstruction of Vegas.

The fact he doesn't care beyond this just makes him a man who doesn't require much in the way of legal prohibitions. In that respect, perhaps, he might have more freedoms than NCR in terms of personal liberties.



Mister House is, explictly, the party responsible for the behavior of the Strip's three tribes because he has set them in power as his bureaucracy. He's also responsible for the behavior of his Securitrons. Indirectly, he's responsible for the behavior of the Omertas and certainly he abused everyone necessary in his land grab of the Strip. No, he's not actively malevolent but he's utterly ruthless in the pursuit of his aims.

Not necessarilly a BAD quality in a ruler - let's be honest.



I never said Mister House was cruel. I said he was an autocrat and a tyrant. Mister House doesn't abuse people because he has no sadistic joys out of it like Caesar apparently does or any of the other villains. He's a businessman who wants to rebuild Vegas, which again he considers to be his property. The objections I have to Mister House are based totally on the fact that he is the self-appointed monarch New Vegas.

A role that he enforces based on force and force alone.



I have no doubt that Mister House would have done well by NCR as long as he was allowed the same laws that used to govern The Brotherhood of Steel, i.e. a "State within a stae" allowing him to rule New Vegas unopposed. However, it still doesn't change that he is NOT New Vegas' monarch by anything but force and no one is unhappy to see him go. The White Glove Society to the Tops are all happy he's gone.

In the case of the Yes Man or NCR endings, I think both would go over better or equally well. Really, it depends on the actions of the Courier since the Courier can MAKE situations better.



I think your understanding is actually the flawed one to be honest. Mister House derives his rulership of New Vegas entirely from his Securitron Army, which falls under your control at the end of "No Gods, No Masters." Yes Man explictly hands them directly over to you while he reboots his personality, giving you control of not only the ones on the Strip but the ones which destroyed the Legion. Absolutely nothing has changed between you and Mister House save you may have altered all of the tribes to be more beneficial and eliminated many threats in the Mojave.

Really, it's up to the Player to imagine what the Courier does next of course.

I agree with you regarding NCR - EXCEPT if the Courier stabilizes the Region for NCR (which he/she can do by destroying the Fiends and other destabilizing factors)