Yep, they're just that dedicated.

I lol'd at the guy who voted for Benny XD. LEGION FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well first of all I haven't played Honest Hearts yet so the whole thing about the divide, I cant really say anything about that because I really dont know enough about it yet and I dont want to look on the wiki because I dont want any spoilers. Your right about the Legion spamming troops in from Arizona but at the same time NCR will be sending in their own troop, only this time their not going to be the young inexpeirenced troops that we see in there during NV, they're going to be more well trained and probably have seen a lot of battles in their time too. Im not really sure how many vets might still be left out there but I cant imagine that the ones we see in NV are all of them, so there might still be some left somewhere. Also without the courier intervening Chief Hanlon may have pulled some kind of stunt to get the rangers pulled back before the battle at the dam, so there's a chance that none of them would have been killed in the first place anyway.

And when I said that the Legion wouldn't be able to hold both the land they've already got plus the Mojave I wasn't trying to say the NCR would go after the Legions land, I was saying the roles would be reversed and the Legion would be the ones stretched to thin to defend the Movave this time, not the NCR. And you got to discout Edwards speech about his thesis - anti thesis, I think his brain tumor was acting up and he didnt know quite what he was talking about. He was talking about how the war would change both of the factions forever, and he was right, but unfortunetly for him at least in my opinion no matter what it doesn't end well for the Legion.

Either way there's really no way to ever know who would have come out on top, all we can do is speculate, and to be honest both sides have good points and bad points, which you really got to credit the devs for making it like that instead of making one of them a juggernaut and the other one the plucky underdog that we see way to much of already.

alright then let me know when you bet HH so we can discuss this alright because currently its a large part of an argument that i will show in as soon as your done alright?

I think some of you are confusing the Mojave desert with the entirety of the West. The Legion would have no problems holding the Mojave (Which is also illustrated by their endings).

The answer: Brotherhood of Steel beats all of them

Why: Because they have Paladin Dune

I got the equipment, the ammo, and the perks.....BRING IT ON

Sounds good man, I'll shoot you a pm here in the next couple of weeks and we can start a new thread, still got to get my system fixed so I can play again.

NCR

They are larger then the Legion.

More Advanced then the Legion

They don't take the Legion serious enought to even fight them with their full strength. The leadership just wants to contain the Legion.

We learn in HH that the Legion would have got their asses kicked far worse then they did at the first battle of Hoover Dam. NCR lost entire divisions sent to protect the Dam to storms at the Divide.

NCR has to go around the Big Empty and Divide, they have to go around the mountains and enter Mojave from the West, insted of just sending in troops from Northern Nevada.

Powder Gangers put all work on a rail line into the Mojave to a stop.

So NCR isn't really trying against the Legion. What troops they do send are having trouble sending troops to the Mojave for reasons that have nothing to do with the Legion. In short the Legion got lucky.

In all seriousness, it's anybody's guess.

It will come down to tactics, since all sides have the numbers.

And yet none of this would actually benefit the NCR in the 2nd battle for the Dam.

Far enough but their being more advanced would.

If this is all about the Battle for the Dam, then the Legion do have a good chance of taking it. In the long run the Legion would lose all against the NCR.

Wrong huh? :shrug:


Time is not the reason, I just don't see why anyone could want to discuss this crap again.
Always turn into the same damn mess that is just frustrating to participate in.
It never shows any progress.
We never reach a conclusion.
So I have no interest in joining the discussion.

Just gonna leave with that I still think that Legion are clearly going to win. :bunny:
All the signs are there, Searchlight, better morale, better equipment, better training, Nipton, tightening the NCR supply line, The Divide hindering the NCR, a lot of rangers being in Baja, Nelson, Station Charlie, monorail bombing, Cottonwood Cove, Omerta's plan, Benny getting caught by Legion if he's scared off from the Tops.

But have fun discussing.

Honestly I don't think anyone single faction would have taken the whole of the Mojave.

NCR were stretched and fighting every bandit, ganger, crooked merchant, mutant and mutated beast in the area.
At the same time holding a porous line with most resources heading in the wrong directions.
After the dam, most likely to pull back to the Mojave outpost, where they will be far stronger and have the same advantage as caesar at Hoover dam.

CL had the upper hand at the dam and areas, but this was after years of bolstering his forces and letting the NCR wear itself down.
As soon as the dam goes, caesar would have to face all those factions that the courier roped into line, with a battered force and very likely outstreched supply lines.

House would keep New Vegas.. at least its strip, the kings , freeside, westside.. etc are not likely to give in either.
Fiends will still be fiends, just as likely to attack CL as they were NCR.
Vegas would become a bubble, a bulge in the CL line, the remaining NCR in the area most likely to defect to House.

Sloan, the quarry, black mountain, jacobstown and the ncrcf will most likely be impassable and spread out to attack whichever forces they can, or defend themselves from aggressors.

BoS, most likely will perform an exodus suffer large casualties but inflict them also on any group they encounter.

Primm and goodsprings likely to be ignored, but harrased by raiders all the time.
Novac.. destroyed, but very likely the ghouls / nightkin would create terror in the region.

So imo no one would secure a major victory.

Ah hell Gabriels done thrown out the bunny, its serious now. Gotta admit though man, this hasn't blown up the way they usually do, maybe people are just getting tired of the same old arguments over and over again.

Not house, if it wasn't for the courier he would have never gotten the chip. Sense the Legion appeared to be winning over the NCR at various locations, I think they'd win.

I'd point out lots of facts and give a thought out explanation, but it won't change anyones opinion. :sadvaultboy:

I think your confusing this with some other faction because Lanius said it himself that they cant handle the west and east.

They can hold it but not for long. NCR would come back in full force and take back the Mojave, or more likely the Legion will throw themselves at NCR in their attempt to conquer all of NCR and destroy themselves.



This ^

Not sure why House is out of the running... If there was no courier he would have just picked someone else. The courier is just a pawn, and there are hundreds more if he had fallen.

I say Benny and Yes Man would succeed. Benny gets the army of robots as planned, kills house, lets legion and ncr fight one another, then sweeps in with his Robot Army to get rid of the winners. I honestly think that Benny would succeed...so long as no one learned about Yes Man and only if he managed to knock off House (and didn't have the Courier after his ass). think about it.

I say NCR but my reasoning is that they'd have to pump huge amounts of troops and vets into the effort.

Legion would have won the battle for Hoover Dam, hands down, no question. The ball's in their court throughout the game, they've got the plans in place to divide and conquer the whole region. As for the war...no one. NCR might be able to drive the Legion back in the coming years, but there's not gonna' be anything worth conquering after that. The Dam's generators will have long been destroyed (as per the Legion's anti-technology policy), so the big prize, the reason NCR had even come in the first place, would be gone entirely. All that would remain are a smattering of cities and settlements not worth the trouble of holding. In the end, the Mojave would just revert back to the state of anarchy it was in before House got Vegas up and running.

That, or House would have to find an agent (or several) deemed skilled and dependable enough to carry out his plans...but then we more or less just go back to New Vegas with Courier.


Benny was doomed from the start, he never had a prayer of winning. House was already well-aware of his treachery, and there was no way he would have ever been able to get inside the 38 as a result. Hell, Benny never really had a real plan of action, and is really, when you get down to it, a complete idiot.

Legion would win in the Mojave, anything more is questionable, but that is not.

If Cl takes the dam at first NCR will get a whole mess of men with guns, and march them around the divide and crush cl forever.

After talking to the Burned Man in HH he says he was lucky after the first battle? He got thrown off a cliff a blaze. Says rangers and whole companies of men are killed or stalled by the divide and big empty.

Once they loose that dam cl only has a limited time.

Judging by the two endings cl wont really win anyway. As soon as they hit rangers in black armour and the heavy units cl dies.

CL has nothing to counter vet rangers and heavy troopers with LMGS and mini guns. Besides me. NCR still has vet rangers alive armed with only hunting shotguns right up to Lanius s camp. CL is all dead about halfway inside the dam. Soon as they hit vet rangers with 45/70 pistols/rifles and AMRs they get slapped hard.

Ceaser is going to die soon without me. He controls the Legion. He is not able to be replaced. His charisma can not be matched by Lanius.

Don t get me wrong cl has a chance to win for a second, but the cost would be the utter destruction of cl. NCR won t stand for not having that dam and they will get real serious, and not only take the dam back, but go into cl territory and destroy them.



House needs me way too much......

Benny can t get yes man into houses network. He can t even get in the 38. House knows he stole the chip, so if Benny tries going in the 38 he ll get some mk1 securitron action.