I never said CL would win the war, but they aren't completely helpless like House or Yes Man, the NCR, if it gave a damn, wouldn't need th Courier, and the Legion doesn't need the Courier, they are on nearly equal footing, just different.

What other NPC besides maybe Lanius (if he used guns too) or The Burned Man even has a chance to do what you can do? The Burned Man was brutal on the way to salt upon wounds.

Niether of them will do what House wants.......... They have their own [censored] to worry about.

Most NPCs can t lie to Caeser after not blowing up Houses robots. He see right through them and have them killed. Or he ll just 1 punch them with the ballistic fist himself. lol

I d like to see a normal NPC just make it from Vegas to the fort. The glowing ferals at the top of the hill before Cottonwood Cove would kill them. The Burned Man would die somewhere between Cottonwood Cove and Ceasers tent. Even if he got Boone to go with him.

How would Benny walk into Caesers camp to upgrade to MKII?

Mkl will not be hard for NCR or CL to smack.

The game would be really boring if the NCR was a well oiled machine, and did not need you.

Let me tell you something about NCR vet rangers. While I was on a cl playthrough I decided to weaken ncr even more by taking out McCarrin and Camp golf. I died like 3 times from 1st recon outside McCarren. No biggy I wiped the place clean for Caeser.

I got to camp golf hard/ hardcoe NCR desert rangers inside. I turned Veronica on melee. I bust in in vet legionary armour riot shott with slugs. I tried at least 10 times. The 45/70s are devestating. I lived like 30 sec a couple times took cover strapped on a super stim. shot some jet. Pulled a mini gun with ap rounds, and these guys are monsters.

I vote would be Benny/YesMan followed by Caesars Legion
House couldn't do much with the Mk.1 Securitrons since he didnt have the Platinum Chip ( which Benny/YesMan planned to use on the Securitron Army ) and he wouldn't be able to "recruit" his robot since they need to hop off the manufaturing line.
While the NCR and CL are fighting at the Dam, I say CL would win and with their numbers depleted at the end Benny strolls in with his new army and takes over.

Ring-A-Ding-Ding Baby!

They took 5mm ap mini guns like champs. Me and Veronica never killed more than 4. They will not run outside after you either.

Like Caesers tent they will chase you outside....... advantage you.

The vet rangers inside camp golf will not go outside after you........advantage them.

They have the nastiest 45/70 pistol, brush gun, AMR cross fire ever in there. Average life expectancy 12 seconds. They are monsters. Id have to go in there with buffout, jet, medx , slasher, psycho, rebound, strap a super stim before going in and eat a wasteland omlet. Then bust in and maybe I would have a chance.


It makes killing all bos plus turrets seen like a really big cake walk.

Those guys are just monsters. CL has nothing life them.

A camp golf raid after vets is the hardest thing in the game by far.

How is Benny going to get in the 38 when House knows he stole the chip and get the mkll upgrade ? How is Benny really going to get to the fort? How is Benny going to walk into Caesers Camp and get the rest of the securitons?

The Legion having difficulties controlling the Mojave is out of the question. By the time they're done conquering it Caesar is known as the man who's conquered 91 tribes (That's 5 more tribes swallowed by the Legion). Mojave desert =/= The West

EDIT: As Mako pointed out, everything else beyond the Mojave is up for debate, but the Mojave itself is out of the question.




What a fascinating story, broham. Unfortunately for you it doesn't actually boost your "argument" any further.

When you put it like that its seems far fetched so CL would be the top bet then, but then again how did the Courier manage to happly wander from faction to faction.

As for Mr House knowing about the theft of the Chip and that it was Benny, why did he not interven after all Bennys casino, The Tops, is just up the road and theres plenty of Securitrons roaming the Strip to repossess the Chip.

Whoever has the Platinum Chip, wins.
Without any interferences, Benny's plan is bound to succeed since House, even being aware of the treacherous nature
of his former pupil, is unable or unwilling to stop him. Benny's got several options to infiltrate into the Lucky 38,
time is on his side while the NCR and the Legion are at a stalemate over the dam.

The NCR is just holding on and not actively trying to retake lost positions, merely waiting too see what's going to happen,
on the other side someone is dieing of brain cancer while a certain Legate doesn't have the political standing needed to take the leadership.
Most likely, the Legion will collapse on itself well before any battle takes place but even if they manage to strike at the dam, all Benny's got to do
is unleash the Securitrons as soon as the dust settles down.

Then Yes Man takes over...

9 ST, 8 PE, 8 EN, 7 CH, 6 IN, 7 AG, 7 LK
Thats the SPECIAL for Lanius, So with CH and ST being pretty high I'd say he'd be more than capable of taking leadership, how can he not have the policatal standing to take leadership if hes Caesars second in command ??
Caesar doesnt die before the battle for the Dam so how would the Legion collapse on itself ?

The Legate is not liked at all within the Legion, there's evidence about that in alot of dialogues, and without peoples respect, trust and support no one becomes a leader.
Again, it is opinion of many peoples that the Legion is likely to collapse, once Caesar no longer leads it and his days are numbered.

What ones? From what I saw the only one not in awe of him was Vulpes, who at worst called him 'unsubtle'.

I understand that he is disliked by many and that the Legion is predicted to crumble in years.
Tho the the only people within the Legion that dislike the Legate (According to the wiki) are Vulpes and Caesar, and for Lanius to gain leadership Caesar needs to be gone leaving Vulpes who to me doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would oppose Lanius' reign since he after all is referred to as a talker and not a warrior

Too bad I can't find my post about the Mojave without the courier because that summed up pretty much everything I was going to say on the subject.

Anyways I don't take the NCR needing the Courier too seriously I mean half the time they're just asking him to run to places just to talk to people to get them to attack.

-Primm really needs the Courier to run to the outpost for more troops? (They don't have radios)
-I Fought the Law Quest, The courier needs to help the Powder Gangers in order to get the NCR to attack? (I don't think so)
-The Rangers couldn't train the misfits but a Courier could? (Sorry but I doubt that)
-Return to Sender, Again a trooper couldn't do this?

Basically what I'm saying is a lot of these "Quests" are just things for the player to do if there was no player the NCR would have handled the problems themselves. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying they would have done them perfect (like me :wink_smile: ) but they would still have gotten them done. Also I'm not saying the Legion still wouldn't have the upperhand, but damn people keep assuming if there was no courier the NCR would just sit there with their thumbs up their bum.

The NCR are like your post suggests lazy. They are also ignorant political jet heads and wouldn't be able to do half those missions up to standard like the Courier did, they could interigate a Centurian for all their rules, they couldnt find a tratior among them, they can barely hold any of there positions, they're under supplied, powder gangers overpowered them and they couldnt regain control, they're leader nearly died, they are weak

CL having nothing that compairs to vet rangers does not boost my argument? Thats kind of like saying that a sports team having the best players gives them no more of a chance to win.

House says a frontal assult on a casino would be bad for buisness.

The courior is new in town, and a bad ass. Benny is a know scum bag and wears a checked suit.

Them sitting with their thumbs up their bum is pretty much what will happen in most cases without the courier's interventions.

Oh look, it's.....the same arguement....with the same people.....again.

i say we do i dan and just ignore it we all know how this will go down

How do these arguements usually pan out

Way to just ignore my post. It doesn't make any sense for them to ignore half the stuff they would normally do. It's for the sake of quests nothing more. Reason there aren't more Legion quests like the NCR ones is because they already got their butts kicked back into Arizona and only have 3 places under their control in game. (Nelson, Fort, and Cotton Wood) The Mojave for the most part is under NCR rule during a war so while they're preparing for battle with Legion the Fiends, Powder Gangers, Great Kahns, BOS, and everyone else and their mums are attacking too. So like I said if it wasn't for game purposes the NCR would have handled quite a bit. Especially the PGers all the Courier has to do is talk to Sgt Lee (or w/e his name is) and the NCR basically wipe the floor with them.

The NCR wouldn't have handled any of that without the help of the Courier just look at the endings if you do nothing to help the NCR,


Well handled NCR.....

Again did you even read my post? Only reason the NCR doesn't do anything is because it's a game mechanic is that too hard to figure out? The ending wait for the trigger from the courier if this is a real situation the Factions wouldn't be sitting around waiting for some magical courier to save the day. Hell if we're talking game mechanics guess what nothing would happen because no one does jack [censored] without the courier so then no one would win ever because no one started the game.

Edit anyways I'm done not going to discuss this if people just skim my posts and don't actually take the time to read what I wrote, plus like gabe said it has been discussed to death and not really in the mood to do it all over agian. Anyways have fun being blind to gameplay.