I don't think any of the weapon perks are unique enough. It is plagued by passive bonuses. When I use an Axe, and specialize in it, I want unique abilities for my Axe. This goes for Maces and Swords as well. The way it is set up now, it is purely preference which one you use (but not Maces because they are inferior due to their values). I don't think we need a lot of lateral choices. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing a variety of stuff - but more importantly UNIQUE stuff. Skyrim does not have much unique qualities about it, which is sad. You spam swing a sword, or Power attack. The combat system is very shallow, except for Shields. Blocking is the ONLY mechanic truly fleshed out that is intriguing when it comes to combat.

Spears and polearms made sense in an undeveloped land like Morrowind. They don't quite fit in a semi-civilized area like Cyrodill or Skyrim.

I don't disagree. My point is only that arbitrarily limiting each archetype to an equal X number of skills is silly. It might only make sense if the designer had some sort of obsessive-compulsive disorder, not from a design perspective.

mount and blade let you do this. all they did was reduce the damage of the weapon if you used one hand versus two. i cant help but notice how svcky skyrim's combat is compared to warband whenever i play that game. skyrim's combat isnt bad and its alot better than most games out there but it just pales compared to mount and blade.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/N9Zqy.jpg[/img]

Also, thanks Manmer Mage and Black Spider, for injecting some facts and thought out arguments into this thread.

I don't dare to think what would happen if spears were in the game. Probably extreme frame rate problems for all platforms, not just ps3 lol.

I'm pretty sure they said it was because, instead of having a bunch of weapon types all spread out, they wanted to have a smaller number and focus on making the individual weapon types better

Skyrim specifically seems ill-suited for weapons like spears... When I think of Nords in castles far to the north defending their castles from dragons I think of shields, axes and maces to be honest. Bows and arrows, catapults... Can't really see spears coming into it. Throw as many historical references to spears being wielded in our history as you'd like; it still doesn't have much to do with Tamriel history if you ask me. They're two different places.

Well looks like they failed miserably making the weapon types better. It looks like maybe a few hours were put into thinking up the Perks for the weapon types. Extra Bleeding, Extra Crit, Armor Pen. Really? That's it!? That is the ONLY difference between the weapons? Each weapon should have different power attacks or abilities you can perform with them making them unique. Alas, the problem really lies in the fact combat is so short and shallow. When everything dies in a hit or two, not much you can do to make things unique and interesting. You take a traditional RPG and there are almost infinite possibilities...

Well, I thought they did pretty good, but to each their own

I hate to break it to you ....
there is a guard near a castle...
he has a spear holding animation....
and he s holding an invisible spear ...

I smell a big meaty PATCH coming up ... for free

In the game? Where?

lol wut?

In a world where people still use swords, axes, and bows.

Spears wouldn't fit in?

Spears beat swords and axes anyday.

Spears would be tons more effective than a sword, axe, or even a bow against a dragon. (If you manage to skewer the dragon)

I'd see a spear breaking so much easier against a dragon specifically compared to a blunt weapon like a mace.

It really just seems like there's a lot of favoritism amongst the weapons styles.

Hmm, I guess the dragon would just fly right down and let you bash it in the head with a mace.

How nice of him.

With a spear you'd be able to peirce it's torso if it flew at you or landed on the ground.

What are you going to do with a sword against a dragon?

Slash at it till it bleeds enough to die? (Dragon skin is hard I assume)

Stab it?

Spears would be much more effective at stabbing/thrusting than a sword.

Well, they're actually both just as effective at stabbing and thrusting I'd imagine. One's just a tad longer than the other, and that's assuming it's just a single handed hilt. A two handed hilt would probably rival a spear in length quite easily... Either way, spear, sword or mace, a dragon would have to land for you to strike it... Unless you've an amazing spear arm and quite a few more spears to just throw away.

It's a game at the end of the day. They won't include something just for the 'needless realism' of better thrusting momentum with a spear vs a sword.

I'm glad they are not in. We cant have had them spending less time on the framerate and bugs before release.
Maybe as future DLC but only after fixes

Everybody is [censored]ing about how there are no spears/crossbows/whatever. Well, while you go ahead and continue crying that you didn't get what you wanted and that the game is too streamlined, why don't you go ahead and suggest a perk tree for the spears and weapons that you want so badly?

And what would you add to the other tree collections (Shadow and Magic) to help balance the new power in the Might group?

Oh, but this is futile on my part because people just like to cry.

Woah man, take it easy!

Somehow all I can think of when people write this [censored], is the bandits in Oblivion going "You gonna cry now?".

Okay, a quick & dirty perks for a 2-handed spear/halberd in approx. order of skill required:

Momentum 1/2/3/4/5 -- "Your weapon does +20%/+40%/+60%/+80%/+100% damage"Deflect blows 1/2 -- "Block 20%/40% more damage with your spear".Reach 1/2 -- "20%/40% More reach with your spear."Trip 1/2/3 -- "20%/40%/60% chance to stagger opponent on sidestepping powerattack. Modified by opponent's base scale, bigger opponents being harder to trip."Plow 1/2 -- "You slam the shaft of your spear sideways at the opponents in front of you, hitting max. 2/3 enemies. Short range, with a chance to stagger enemies. Staggers you if blocked."Brace for Impact -- "Bashing with your spear while being power-attacked by an enemy causes them 4x critical damage."

Might be missing a few perks & needs distributing skill requirements to your taste, but I think there's a theme visible. Also, just the perks do nothing on their own. All this [censored] needs animations and models.

Speaking of crying, what's with some people's obsession with this? There's no need to have a neatly divisible number of skills split into three groups. This isn't Diablo with only a handful of classes. TES has had Battlemages waltzing around the battlefield in full plate harness and flinging fireballs, since the days of Arena. Any "profession" can use any skill.

I think that if it was unbalanced then 1 archetype might be considered OP because it had more skills, so potential for more damage or defense or w/e

But there are no classes? Every character can max out anything and everything or only a handful of skills, no need to neatly divide skills across magic, stealth and combat in my opinion. If it was an extra weapon skill, like a separate spear tree there are even less problems because most people only pick one melee weapon skill to train in most of the time. (Or at least I do).

My bad, not classes, but archetypes.

I was going to reply along those lines, although I am not sure of the "science".

The Orsimer women I know only use it grow our young, but it is not the milk of a cow or goat.
Those milk drinking mages are forever changing there minds.
To them milk is good one day and bad the next!
They are annoying like a fly going buzz buzz buzz all the time, and you just want to swat them with an ebony hammer!!