I love the game primarliy for its big strength, which is the sense of a living, breathing world with a history, society, and ecology (how many fantasy worlds actually feel natural?). There is never any question with an Elder Scrolls game, in my book. I do acknowledge some of its weaknesses. The story lines could have been better, but they're not bad by any means, and they lead you to stunning locales. I like the perq system, but I think the actual combat should be revamped a little for the next game: in particulat the enemy ai. But if you're hesitating to buy or play, hesitate no longer! The sunsets alone are worth the money . . .

I love it<3
Morrowind is still my favourite,But skyrim is still better then oblivion
Every TES game is good for me at least.

My opinion pretty much boils down to "Eh, it's alright". It's not the best game ever but it's far from the worst. I find it an entertaining way to kill time.

I agree with this...

Its the best game of 2011 hands down... A little more work like you said.. And it would have been the best game ever made.


That being said.. Its still one of the greatest games ever made.

It's alright, but not really "good". Too little risks were taken outside of Bethesda's comfort zone. The real star of the game is not the player, or even the stories within, but the world they created...unfortunately a good game that does not make.

The stories are poor, quests are largely randomly generated variations of dungeon delves and fetch quests, combat and overall balance is lacking, progression is not really there, there are little to no meaningful decisions or ways of otherwise defining our character through dialogue, npcs are very basic and almost cardboard, there are little to no consequences for our actions, too much "idiot proof" unfailable quests and immortal npcs, no real benefits, story ramifications, or penalties to racial choices, too much catering to the entitlement crowd who want to do everything on one character...etc.

They really need to sit back, and evaluate what they have here, as whether they manage to drastically change their design philosophy in the future or not, will determine whether I give their future titles a look at all.

Some games they ought to look at and study in my opinion include:

1. Fallout 1, 2, New Vegas
2. Baldur's Gate 1 - 2
3. Daggerfall, Morrowind
4. Demon/Dark Souls

I call that BS.
First of all, the greatest achievement in gaming history is the NES.
Then, They could've worked on it for 10 additional years, and there would probably still be something that displeases someone.
And they just delivered us the ultimate fix for that issue. Because thousands of dedicated fans sure can make it that "best game ever" you want to see, without needing a year. Just think of everyone saying "Just release it, we'll fix it for you!". They did, and I'm glad we don't have to wait another year for it.
Finally, go shove an iron helmet up your anus for calling Bethesda lazy. You can give the game a 1/10 if you want, that's a matter of taste and I'm okay with everyone in here having it a 5/10 for himself, but Bethesda just worked 5 years straight on what is probably the biggest game ever made and they rushed through months of bugfixes while STILL delivering an unmatched modding tool AND high resolution pack FOR FREE. So don't call them lazy, for Todds sake.

My thoughts exactly. With game development costs going through the roof too many developers have become afraid of taking chances.

Can you imagine how pampered Bethesda fans have become calling this game "alright, but not really 'good'"?
While the same thing is said about games like Fable 3?

You see, for all that time and all that effort it just doesn't feel as if anyone actually ever sat down and tried to play the game through. One thing which reinforces that for me is the broken magic system - I cannot believe anyone playing through as a mage wouldn't raise big complaints about how their destruction magic doesn't level.

So I and thousands of other gamers who are content with the game are an annoying statistical anomaly?
And I believe you are talking about a BUG which may or may not occur during beta testing. Although I didn't play as a pure battlemage, I used destruction a lot and didn't have any problems with it.

You use the key word there though - "content" - well for a game to be GOTY it needs to be something special.

The Destruction thing is only 1 example though - the flow of the game, even though it's obviously open ended, just doesn't seem to work or feel right. One minute I'm in a cave thrapsing weak Druegers, the next I've leveled up and i am in a similar cave where the Druegers are owning me. Then I've four people all talking random stuff to me at the same time as I'm recieving a quest off someone - a quest which gives me no directions or clear objective/purpose, but because of a nice little mark on my map + compass I'm fine getting there.

It just feels, well, sloppy.

Like I say I don't think it's a bad game, it just doesn't live up to the hype or surpass one of it's prequels.

I really think that DLC ought to work both ways - if we pay for extra content and story after the original release then they should refund us some money for all the bugs, gameplay additions, and mods fixes they need to make. I know this isn't realistic, it's just a point of principle.

If the guild quests were longer and better written I'd be happy. Also, the writing is mediocre.

Other than that I'm satisfied with it.

I like goatcheese. I used not to, but now I do. There are many people who don't thought, but I'm okay with that.
You know what I mean.


I find this game one of the best I have ever played but it sure is a matter of taste, which is why I don't like threads like this one. People won't usually judge a game objectively, which is basically impossible anyway, and they only stir up flame- & trollwars.
The focus of Skyrim obviously lies in the world and the exploration. I really liked these aspects in the previous games, and so Skyrim became one of my favorites. And to be honest, in terms of world depth, exploration, size and content, this game is most probably one if not the best ever made. Then there's people like you who focus more on other things, like storx and combat. Nothing wrong with that, I like The Witcher 2, too. But it's all a thing about preferences, and telling a game generally "bad" or even "untested" is a thing of generalizing, and seriously, if you want to see a game that you can call 'untested', go play some dike Tracey. Or heck, you want something modern? Look for "Die Polizei", a german Police simulation game, and you won't ever complain about glitches in Bethesda games again.

EDIT: No, seriously, get that game, you will have lots of fun with it.

Not being acknowledged for what you're doing in Skyrim is sort of like the real world. See in the real world doing stuff for someone you get a one time thanks and perhaps some money or a gift, then it's usually not brought up again. Doing a good job in the office is like soiling yourself while wearing dark clothing. You get a warm feeling but no one seems to notice.

Such it is in Skyrim, except that warm feeling soon freezes depending upon your location.

Just watched the creation kit tutorial, and so far it has ruined my RPG table games. Dude, being able to draw your own dungeon in skyrim and play them later with my selected challenges and everything else, oh my I'm telling my favourite GM i'll be off from games for the next, lets say, 6 months.

Edit: Pulled out the creation kit and loaded that unowned cell, dragged the Aela the Huntress into it and all of a sudden a thought came up inside my head: "Yeah, youre MY bi* now heh!" xD

Totally mate, I wasn't trying to stir up any trollwars or anything, was more just interested in how folk viewed the game now. Also, kinda hoping that Bethesda pay attention to these feedback threads - more out of the fact that not that much has changed from Oblivion to Skyrim for me, and that's a bit pap considering the time between games.

Like you say, each to their own.

There's more



1. NPC interaction

In Oblivion, NPCs could gossip. Was this perfect?

"Hello."
"Good day"
"Anything new with you?"
"I'm through talking to you now."
"Goodbye!"

Lolno of course it wasn't. Was it better than Skyrim? Easily. You see, even if dialog was repetitive, we as players understand this might happen, and furthermore the gossip did a wonderful job of serving as "backround noise." If I walked through town, I could hear NPC pvssyr, but maybe not WHAT it was about, so it added to the scenery perfectly.

But maybe some people hated Oblivion gossip. K then, let's take a Bethesda title (published anyways) that went in another direction: Fallout New Vegas.

"Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter."

Oh yeah, it had repetitive dialog too, and the players noticed it.
Hence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSUEE_e8a0I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLQ3Uw0S4eQ

So yes, repetitive dialog. What's the difference though? Why is it that, we as New Vegas players could upload vids like those and laugh WITH New Vegas instead of getting incredibly aggrivated by the idiotic dialog? Well, watch the vids again. What do you notice? The NPCs with repetitive dialog are anonymous; they don't even get names, as if to scream "don't bother with me, I'm not important to the game at all." Furthermore, they had to be PROVOKED. They rarely spouted their dialog unless provoked by the player. Thus, while "patrolling the mojave" was repetitive as hell, it had an "off-switch" in a sense; if you were sick of it, just avoid the anonymous NPCs. You didn't even have to avoid them, I'd say it was only a 1 in 20 chance they'd speak unprovoked, and that was if you were right next to them or looking directly at them.


So how did Skyrim fail?

Repetitive dialog. Repetitive dialog everywhere. Skyrim's dialog leads me to hypothesize that it wasn't written by an actual human, but rather by an alien race that has abducted some of Bethesda's employees and replaced them with alien clones, all in attempt to blend in, learn our ways and all our secrets. Unfortunately, the aliens still have a lot to learn as they don't quite seem to comprehend basic small talk and everyday greeting rituals. They haven't grasped that people don't tend to give random passerbys on the street their whole life story, but rather we give basic greetings such as "hello." They haven't grasped that the required distance for a greeting is that you and your greeting partner are within 3 feet of each other, but rather think an appropriate distance is anything up to 17 feet.

The entire NPC dialog of Skyrim as a whole feels completely alien. It's the most awkward, unnatural and forced delivery I've ever seen in an RPG.


2. No quest chains or triggers.

The faction quest chains are.....like wtf, was that a chain? That was like 3 hours of gameplay....
And the triggers? I've left Riverwood for the first time heading towards Whiterun for the first time only to be jumped by the Thalmor, carrying notes on them that state I'm an "imminent threat to the Aldmeri Dominion that must be dealt with," having "commited crimes against the Aldmeri Dominion."

What the [censored] guys? T-R-I-G-G-E-R-S. You know, those things that make sure things don't occur awkwardly or randomly out of order? Pretty sure you had them in FO3, did you lose them?


3. The Storyline


'Nuff said.

We've gone from "Welcome Nerevarine, we are destined to fight. It is a tragedy and I wish you luck, and I bid you no ills, but it must be done. As my guest, you have the first draw. However, shall we discuss my motives and plan first so you can understand why I would ever do this? I'm actually fairly reasonable...."

To..

"Hi Champion of Cyrodiil, I'mma destroy the Empire. Why? I'm Mehrunes Dagon. It's like....my thing man. Read up on it, I have a massive hard-on for this kind of stuff. Destruction and revolution is my hobby. Do I need any more reason than that? Tough luck for you, but I'm having the time of my life."

To....

"HHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR I R DRAGON HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRR

EAT HUMAN

HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Y U ASK??

.......


HUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR I'M A DRAGON HUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"



4. Character development

I think this is more my personal opinion, but....as an example, I had a lot of fun with Oblivion. Why? My character grew stronger. Gaining artifacts would do SOOOO much for my character. Getting Spellbreaker was like "holy crap I'll be unstoppable now." I had to work to learn how to cast the reflect damage spell or to gain the Sigil Stones with the best Resist Magic enchantment. Was it boring when I got all of that? Yes and no. Yes the combat was easy, but I felt like I earned the right to be OP.
Skyrim? What can I gain here that gives me a sense of accomplishment; a feeling that I'm now way stronger? Self-crafted armor and weapons....Which I unfortunately gain by spamming armors and weapons being made (I don't even exploit iron daggers and it's STILL boring), and which I do by NOT dungeon diving, but rather by staying home at the forge. When I get them, I don't feel like "I did it!" I feel more like "about damn time."

And again, nothing I ever do matters. No one takes notice of anything, not likely anything will beat my self-made gear and.....why am I bothering again?

They probably do, but keep in mind that Oblivion received great reception as it was, and Skyrim is officially known as one of the best games of all time. Also there are hundreds of threads with different opinions displayed and stuff. I think the Creation Kit is still the easiest and probably the most effective way to please different tastes. But I agree with you, taking different opinions into consideration while developing the next game is, of course, a good thing!



































Play "Die Polizei", it's bad.

Lol. Unmatched modding tool and high-res pack? Tell that to console players.

I understand Skyrim is a huge game. There will always be bugs and unfinished content. Time is limited and they have to make choices. BUT...

I want to buy a finished product. I don't want to fix it myself. And I have to admit I'm quite satisfied with Bethesda's delivery. What I don't like is WHAT they put in, not HOW they did it. I don't like the design choices, the mechanics, the dialogues.
Lockpicking mini-game.
Useless skill trees.
Random people talking to you every time you pass them by.
No attributes.
Short questlines.

That's not something more time would've fixed. They WANTED to put it in the game and I happen to dislike it, that's why I don't rate Skyrim 10/10.
One could argue about the questlines - more time, better guilds - but honestly, they had 5 years, what were they doing all this time? Drawing pretty dungeons? Well then they should have known that guilds are extremely important in this game and they should have hired better writers.

I refuse to accept CK is the ultimate solution, not when the majority of their sales is on consoles.

9.5/10 great game indeed. Only complaints that I can think of off the top of my head right now are that you should be randomly attacked more when traveling whether by some kind of animal, thief, assassin or whatever else also another complaint would be that the final fight in the main quest is a little anti-climatic. My final complaint is that it should be harder and take up a lot more time to become the leader of a Guild.

And course it matters mate. Unless folk pick out the faults they can't make the game better.

It says a lot that it feels like the Lockpicking skill tree is the way it is simply because it "lewks kewl n matches da shape uf uh lawkpick" rather than because it's actually practical.
I also don't get why they didn't at least include a skill requirement before attempting the locks. I thought FO3's example was a reasonable compromise between RPG elements and adventure elements.

I've come to think of TES games as RPG templates for modders. Skyrim is an excellent one, except for the hole where the magic should be. I know there will be Spellmaking mods, but because it will be something shoehorned in there will always be seams showing in it's presentation as other spell mods and DLC shows up.

i'm playing MW as we speak (3 months of skyrims and I need a frigging break XD) and to be honest.... I only agree that MW had more mystery and a more alien atmosphere

other than that skyrim beats the crap out of it

it sure could use more items and deeper crafting system though (hell all games do)

Why should I? Of course they don't have that stuff, jsut like they don't have mouse support. They should've been aware of that when buying the game.

Now, that's what YOU don't like, you nailed it, but that's no reason for them to change the game and you shouldn't expect them to. As you go for the majority of players, most players like the lockpicking minigame, people talking to you, the perk system and the in-their-opinion-not-useless-at-all-skill trees.
This is where mods come into play.

See, for many players, that is NOT as important as it is for you. I personally favor the environment over the questlines. Which can easily be fixed by mods, too.

As for your last point, I may repeat that you buy a console game fully aware of the consoles limitations and of course, on a console too I want a finished and working game (I hope you do not own a PS3), but you should not expect to have it match all your preferences just because these are your preferences. You should try to get hired at Bethesda if you want them to incorporate your specific ideas.