I laughed.


It doesn't really matter what Ms. Zuckerberg says, it's not going to happen. For the purpose of the debate, I think that a lack of anonymity on the internet is impractical, ill-conceived and ultimately counterproductive.

Uh... no, you don't have that right. At least, there's no international law that stipulates that you do - which is what the Internet basically is.

That would not pan out the way you think it would - people already commit hate crimes, bully and hurt others in real life. People do stuff like that on Facebook all the time - and their real names are (supposedly) supposed to be, well, real.

And how would this be checked? Social Security numbers? Birth certificates? Photo ID? Imagine what hell would have been unleashed if Sony had to keep that kind of information on their servers!

Find where you live. Find where you are employed. Stalk. Etc, etc.

Oh, yes, blame the victim. So, if someone gets beat up because they, say, won in an online game and the loser finds out their personal information and then http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/3083862/British-gamer-murder-Man-questioned.html, then they deserved it? (Yes, I realize I may be taking what you say out of context just a wee bit).

Again, see the people getting bullied, harassed and murdered in real life bit. Acting as one would in real life on the Internet does not preclude getting into trouble.

Within reason, yes. The whole "yelling fire in a crowded theater" and threatening some governmental agency / person would still get someone knocking at your door, though.

Now, perhaps I'm just a bit off base here... but generally if someone is "unstable enough" to want to physically harm someone they met / contacted over the Internet... they aren't going to be thinking in a rational manner to even think twice about what consequences may befall them.

Again, see Facebook.

People do that all the time. It's called sending an anonymous letter to the local news.

that would just cause more crime as everyone would begin stalking me because im so awesome:D no but seriously, nobody should be bothered by trolling, its one of the things that you can't really do anywhere else but online.

If there was a group vehemently opposed to some idea of somethingoranother I had to the point if I tried to talk about it in any non-anonymous manner they would try and kill me, would full anonymity still be a problem?

The most obvious example of this is if I was of a religious belief in an area where if I express that belief I will be killed. Without anonymity, such a person would be completely robbed of their ability to worship.

Or maybe in some pocket of the world it's still the case you'll get lynched if it comes out that you are homosixual. Should you still be robbed of your anonymity then too?

And you need to show how [censored] up it can be visit that site for a bit.

Like I said, this balence is fine. I dont know who you are, you dont know me. Even if I hated you I cant harm you.

No this is the way the internet should be, total anonymity is bad. People ahve shown they cant be trusted with it.


If your going into extremes and its either total anonymity or everyone knowing you. Then I would go with the latter. If you living in a country where people kill you for being gay just dont post it. Congratulations you just avoided being lynched. Now buy a plane ticket out of there.

Indeed, what she's proposing could cause what would be "internet-only trouble to spill over to the real life

public anonymity isn't the problem it's those that don't think the rules apply to them IMHO. if the idea is there to stop cyber-bullying, no anonymity doesn't stop bullying in real life.

I never said the entire Internet should be totally anonymous. I said certain places on the Internet need to be completely anonymous. Something I still stand by.

I agree with you on the entire Internet being anonymous would be a bad thing, but that's not what I'm arguing for. I'm arguing for the need for pockets of anonymity. Pockets, which thank goodness, already exist.


(If you don't like that, I advise you to never go on Freenet... actually... on second thought, you SHOULD go on Freenet, it'll show you that just because you are fully anonymous doesn't mean that you devolve into /b/)


I'm not going into extremes of either it exists or everyone will know you, but that in certain circumstances complete anonymity is a must for you to be you. It doesn't cover the whole web, but it does cover those necessary areas


That'd be wonderful if that was an option for every person, but it isn't. An Ethnic example would be Hotel Rowanda, where moving out was impossible for the people being tortured.

Nope, nowhere should. All the people from /b/ or people like them would just move there. It may take some time, but eventually it will happen.
I am not going on anything after the last experience with everyone being anonymous.

How is total anonymity (I feel tired so spelling is probablly wrong) any better ? I could post here and you wouldnt know who I am, it wouldnt be know to those I know irl and if it is that bad I can get punished/traced if its that terrible (which by todays standards it has to be, to be taken that far) then the person deserves whatever they get.

Total anonymity keeps the government from being able to track you down from online (like already mentioned Rowanda or if you were just in a resistance). It keeps your ISP from being able to give you up.

In this respect, /b/ isn't inherently totally anonymous. It's also why /b/ isn't used by those who truly need anonymity (Freenet and TOR are).

If you don't understand the concept of the government not having your back: crack open a history book. The US Red Scare, the Great Purge of the USSR, The Holocaust, etc

/b/ isn't the only anonymous imageboard on the internet... the other sections of that site are anonymous too, but have an actual theme with actual discussions.

Unless your up to criminal activity your government has no reason to pay special attention to you.
It wont happen in todays age.


From the game setion attitudes were simmilar.

:rofl:

Yeah, because history NEVER repeats itself

Edit: even if you truly believe it could never happen here: here isn't the entire world. Just this year Egypt tried to shut down their Internet in an attempt to silence their people. Countless rebellions happen all over the place, and there are still dictators in charge of countless countries. The people in these areas need anonymity even if it turns out we don't (which I don't feel is true for one second).

Oh, yes, people can totally afford to just move around the world freely. Right. Oh, and they can totally just suppress how they feel about themselves and live normal, happy lives just denying part of who they are. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

... hahahahahaaa.... I love this argument. "If you aren't doing anything wrong or are seemingly insignificant, you have nothing to hide or fear from the police or government and thus shouldn't worry about your [online] privacy."

If only they knew what they were doing. There are over 300 million people in the United States. How many people do you think share a common name? I actually know of two different people who have the exact same name as me.

If you only know their name then it may be hard. But what if your age was public, or your zip code? All they need is your name and your birthday, which isn't too hard to find.

Or you could be someone like me, whose first/last name combination is shared by nobody else in the world. :confused:

If you met them online, chances are you can get their IP address. Once you have their IP address you can Geolocate them to some region with fair accuracy. Once you've done that you can search them out on social networks. Chances are there aren't many people in the area of your geolocation that have the same name as the person you are tracking. This technique can be further refined with any other information about the person you can directly find out....


... And this is exactly how the current issues of Internet incidents carrying over to real-life crimes take place. Doing what Zuckerburg wants would just make it that much more widespread.

I've actually done this before, several times. You think the end of anonymity is going to end trolling and abuse? Please. Its already easy enough to track someone down. Give me a few hours and I could have enough info to knock on your front door, with anonymity.

Were we linked so closely back then, dont think so. Look at America, its economy goes it drags everywhere down, UK [censored]s up, drags the EU down. No one will want to do anything to mess with other countries. Unless you somehow get every world leader to think "hmm we should supress people" then its not going to happen. I thought I was paranoid, but good job.


If its that bad, they will find a way. Well they can either do that, find a way to leave or risk getting lynched. Yeah becuase the internet would totally allow them to be who they are... Oh wait they would still be stuck in a place with people that hate them, potentially wanting them dead, still forced to hide it.

Tell me how would them having some anonymous chat change a damn thing ? They would be better off not having the internet saving money and leaving somehow. If its that bad.

I have nothing to hide from them, I have no need for total anonymity.

If someone is going to go through all of that trouble than why wouldn't they do it anyways? Because there isn't a name associated with the account? One piece of information won't stop anyone pissed off enough to cause harm over something that was probably trivial.

Regardless, I don't mind anonymity on forums, but I personally believe that a government database should be allowed to keep track of your movements online for security and law enforcement issues, although records shouldn't be released publicly (obviously).

http://www.ip2location.com/free.asp

IP geolocation is useless, though, without personal information to augment it.

Your personal information really is all that keeps people from being able to easily track you down. Getting your name is the only hurdle, after that, it's simple.

Extremely related: I remember reading a great article of a guy who tracked down someone from an email address. The story was over on Lifehacker (the story was actually linked to another blog, like most LH stories are) if anyone remembers it and wants to link it to me, I'd be greatly appreciative. I understand conceptually how he did it (he ran a WHOIS, got a fake name and did some other stuff, finally getting to an address from which he got county records to get a name and then got some pictures of the place off of Google Maps)


I specifically put that last little bit in there in case you said something like this. Like I said, even if you think it's not likely to happen here, there are still countless small countries where it does happen every day. And yes, they do have Internet access.

"No one will want to do anything to mess with other countries"? Countries interfere with other countries all the time. I won't name specific examples 'cause it would be political.

Amazingly enough, the Internet does just that. LGBT people in particular benefit greatly from the Internet, especially in countries where they routinely hang homosixuals - it lets LGBT people in those countries know they are not alone, which is damn important to them, and it gives them hope for the future. And, amazingly enough, some people are too poor to leave their country and start up life somewhere else, let alone get citizenship somewhere like the United States or the UK.

Really? Ok. Fine. Anonymous chat can help, say, a lisbian girl in country X know that she is not alone in the world - not only are there other lisbians in country X, but there are people in country Y who are trying to help LGBT people in country X. Anonymity in those cases is extremely important and, yes, saves lives. And, again, not everyone has the capability to leave their own country and move somewhere else. Freedom of movement is not guaranteed.

So since you have nothing to hide, that means that other people who do (or who care about their privacy) shouldn't be able to?

... that... that scares me right there.

And its making such a difference, look at the Syrians

"Hey guys, lets protest and get mowed down again, becuase if enough of us die, NATO will do something right ?"

The internet is helping NOTHING changed.

Egypt and Tunisia ring a bell?

obviously you've never used a CB radio. get one and listen on 19 for a few minutes near a truck stop. and you would see the net as clean by comparison.

obviously you've never paid attention to what government do with databases. california used theirs to send swat team into old vets houses to take their old registered guns at gunpoint in the middle of the night. after saying they would never use it as such. knowledge is power. and it can and will be used against you.