What he said about cds is correct. Ill take it a step further and say a good hifi system, proper needle and good decks the old vinyl will even sound better (at least for the first 20-50 plays on a 180 gram record)

I had already preordered it on steam when I found out it was going to be an exclusive.

I don't mind steam at all, but making it an exclusive just like that is just an a-hole move and almost made me want to cancel my preorder.

Zyg's, non-privacy has been the go since the internet achieved mass popularity.

While the naive cry out that the internet is the greatest commuication advance the world has known, and that internet censorship is evil, the law enforcement and security-intel community is sitting back and laughing. For while people are merrilly posting all their details and thoughts and visions of 'their' world view online, those agencies are merrilly watchig the whole thing.

The internet is not the greatest communication advance of all time, but it is the greatest security-intel source that has ever been developed...it is and always will be a double-edged sword.

Now, in consideration of that, Steam doesn't ask a lot...it asks you to register, and play on-line for some games...and for multiplayer games that's a good thing, because it allows cheats, perverts and idiots to be thrown off and/or banned if required.

As I've said before, certainly some people have problems with it, either through inexperience or some hardware/software issue at their end in most cases. In my circumstance, I upgraded my security suite and Steam wouldn't play...so I put the suite in game mode, and bang, Steam works no problems and my games actually aren't so laggy or crashing.

Of course we all had to press 'YES' to accept the Steam agreement; I don't think anyone can argue that we all didn't press the button forward to allow the Steam client to install.

What I am saying is that I did install the Steam client, I did install Skyrim, and all is fine. This was just how I bought the game, I did what was required to activate my game so I could play it.

But running Steam was not a requirement to continually play my game, so I don't run Steam.

However, if I or my wife were to log into our Steam accounts, our Skyrim games would be get autopatched up to current, and we do not want our game play changed right now. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a patch that fixes quests and bug fixes; but i don't want that Ninja patch that makes Steam a 'requirement'.

So we will play like this for the time being. I still have the choice to not use Steam. There are many others out there who are now forced to run Steam and have no way to revert back to day one when you could play your game as you purchased it; without needing Steam to play.

Causation is not correlation.

Quoting Steam statistics without referencing the other 75% of the equation is factually and intellectually irresponsible.

(Steam + PS3 + XBOX360 + Ethereal Piracy Number) / 4 = Consensus of acceptance of Steam : Steam

I actually like many features of Steam in that regard, but for a single-player game?

It is functionally useless, WHY?

Why use Steam at all?

Convenience? Combating the great Satan of Piracy?

Surely there has to be a better reason.

People should accept change and move on.
Not stay in past crying, how they hate this and that.
It is not funny anymore.

That's like saying that because you think they provide a good service and like steam that every one else should have the same opinion. It shouldn't be that hard to understand that some of us don't want or care about any service Steam might or might not provide. I don't care if they make me a fresh milk shake each time i start playing my game, i'm just not interested in their service. At all. And every time i see one of their promo pop ups or their "steam community" stuff, all it does is remind me that i am stuck with this useless (and that is exactly what steam is to me) program on my PC running in the background and makes it hate steam that much more. If i didn't HAVE to have steam on PC to play a game i payed for then i would be utterly indifferent to steam and wouldn't care either way. But since i do have to have it despite not wanting it, and have to subscribe to their service despite not wanting it, you can't blame me or any one else that isn't happy about it.

Damn right it isn't funny.

Internetz is srs bizness.

Wonder how well this 'change' argument transfers over to how Skyrim changed from Morrowind?

Oh.... right.

Digital media is good. Who wants to run out to the store when you can just download something? And to be honest, you want to kill piracy? Then move more towards digital media instead of away from it like the tv and movie industry has been doing for years. Netflix is all fine and good, but the best and new movies still require you to either wait for them to be shipped or released on dvd. Seriously, if you had the option, would you run out to the movies on a Saturday night or just stay home and watch that new release on your big screen tv? The industry needs to move forward or get out of the way. I'm sick of the complaining though.

With that said, just because something is a good idea doesn't mean the idea is being done well. Steam svcks. Steam support svcks. I'm sorry, but any company that doesn't have phone support, probably doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. Steam ignores their customers and refuses to aid in almost any issue that you have (that is after you wait 5 days for a response). The idea isn't the issue here. Steam is the issue because it svcks.

Yeah... I'm paranoid.
I'm paranoid because the government, the mass media and prevailing nature of modern corporate operation is becoming stricter and stricter about stamping out whatever remnants of individuality, independence or deviation from the norm might still struggle to exist. Because the churning collective mass of society has deluded itself into believing that small things like software piracy are a threat to them.... and use that as an excuse to endlessly tighten the oppressive grip that strangles the liberties of individuals.
I'm paranoid because they're paranoid, but my paranoia is justified. Governments and corporations are a severe threat to me, but I'm not a threat to anyone.
And like the woman that screams and tries to stamp on a mouse... as the mouse I'm in FAR greater danger.

1) I would NEVER willingly run any Apple software on my PCs. Doesn't mean a lot of other people aren't going to, though. Particularly not with you fruities talking left and right about how awesome it is.
2) I don't think tag issues have much to do with iTunes deleting files, which I'm guessing happens for syncronization purposes. The issue isn't whether the iTunes library is nicely organized but if the darn thing deletes files that a user didn't want to delete.
3) If you have to copy your preference file first then that's an added step that I've never needed to avoid any file deletion. Then again, I don't manage my music players with a media player, so maybe me being old school and copying files manually what's keeping me from ever having problems.
4) No, I wouldn't dream of buying an iPod either. That's just a recipe for disaster, since they tend to favor being managed by iTunes, which leads to problems with point 1 as well as me paying an overprice for the product I'm receiving and joining the great unwashed hordes of Apple customers.
5) I've never had problems setting up a jukebox but then I'm also a bit OCD in my way of archiving my music.

The statistics with steam are bunk, don’t you people get it. When you force people to use a product so they can use another product that they originally paid for, its an unfair statistic, because how many of those people having had a choice to be a member of steam would have voluntarily signed up? I guess we will never will we? Steam just gets to keep on saying they got millions upon millions of users, looks good for them. Funny how blackmail and coercion works in the digital age.

I really do not want to fight about this or seem to be hostile towards anyone on these forums.

Some of you like steam with good reason in your opinion and that is all good and fine. Some of you loathe Steam with good reason in your opinion and th too is all good and fine. Either way, we all paid our money and made our own choice - like it or not. Yes I do not like steam! Though I have chosen to use Steam in order to play Skyrim, this does not mean I should not be allowed to voice my distaste for Steam.

A difference of opinion is good in any forum and helps to keep things interesting. As I see it we should agree to disagree and that is that!

Enjoy playing the game everyone and if having Steam forced onto you bothers you that much, next time Bethesda or any other company uses Steam, do not by the Steam reliant product. That action will of course send a message to the developers - I aint'nt gonna even speculate on what sort of message though.

(I am not the fastest typer and I was interupted several times while writing this post. I am aware that some 16+ further posts have been made as I wrote this!)

I think I was one of the people this was directed at. I bought Skyrim on 360 with a plan to get it on PC later for the mods. I will not buy it for PC because of Steam and here are my reasons.

1. I have anti virus/spy/malware it updates it tracks it does lots of stuff but I chose it. No third party got to come install it and say take it or leave it I agreed to a service I wanted. Beth doesn't give you a choice in providers it's one way or none at all.

2. I do not trust Beth now less then ever. If they are willing to put out products like this god only knows what they will settle for in a third party.

3. Adds I'm a firm believer in if I want it I'll go find it. I don't need anyone turning my computer into add space that I pay for. If I get something for it sure but again I decide if the adds are worth what I get. In this case it's take the service take the adds or don't play.

4. Steam does in fact require online access at least every few days.

5. I played C&C for years on Westwood. It's not only if Steam goes bust but what if they decide not to work with Beth anymore? What if an ISP decides they don't like Steam? What if Steam sells to another company? Real world stuff happens it has happened before. in the case of a sale/merger etc we would be stuck between take another agreement with party X or not play. God only knows what party X would require.

6. I have seen some of the same people telling us how great steam is answering other posts on this forum. Thing like replying to "My game won't boot" with "if you don't like the game GTFO" and "Thats what you get from a game this large". If I want advice on software it will not be from people I know have nothing in the way of standards for operation.

Now I know someone will feel the need to convert me or tell me how stupid I am. In the end my money is mine my computer is mine and I am taking advice given in other posts and "not buying it/Not playing it/Not creating the need to hear about it later if it fails, because I'm picky about things working if I pay for them".

So then a game exclusive to a specific console would have unfair statistics as well?

and either way you guys keep making it sound like no one on steam actually wants to be on steam, which isn't the case, not with the 4 million people on steam currently, and the 70,000 people playing Skyrim.

you have that arseways!
Causation is correlation.
it is correlation that is not necessarily causation.

I was with you on your opinion until you said "fruities" I don't know if that is a homosixual slur or lack of vocabulary? I wont call you names for a software preference. As a computer/printer repair shop owner and as a certified tech for both apple OSX (up to snow leopard) and windows (not 7 haven't paid my dues yet) Both mac and PC have a fiar amount of problems. But it is a fact that over the life of a machine (for an end user, not someone who knows how to fix things themselves) the mac has infinitely less problems and costs a lot less in repair services.

Im ocd in my music as well and personally think the .pref system is one of the most valuable parts of OSX, since you can bring your settings into any computer for any program with ease.
If I were going to work on an audio project in Logic pro at your house on your computer I can bring my project and .pref file to your house and have my exact system load up. I find it to be quite convenient, and i know for a fact there is no way to do this on a windows computer. Its not really devoted fan [censored] here. Just reality.

Either way im not trying to change your mind. I like the closed ecosystems of products like steam and itunes because it guarantees a certain amount support and flexibility within their respective product lines. Itunes being my choice of jukebox and steam being my choice in game vendors on a computer.
I love the service and will gladly support them with my $. If you want to play games on your pc, so will you whether you like it or not.

I think they are saying it's a non-starter. It's like saying "All PC skyrim users are registered on Steam" Uh duh you have to be so whats it mean? All Xbox people are on MS in some way too OMG thats cool? Uh huh it just means nothing. It sure doesn't mean Steam is great just means it's required if you like it being required means nothing if you hate it well uh...............

That is the sickness that is rotting humanity from the inside.
Blind acceptance and subservience allows the destruction of our liberties, the death of our freedom.
That attitude is behind every single injustice that has ever happened.

And the only reason we still have as much left as we do is because of the few people who decide they aren't going to put up with whatever bullcrap is dished to them... the few people who will fight back, even against impossible odds, just to make sure it is bloody well known that a slave society is UNACCEPTABLE.

Gathering usage data and suspected erosion of of civil liberties and societal slavery are not even remotely comparable.

Well I do agree with your general point about the direction of Capitalism and the rise of Global Corporatism...the USA is fast becoming a fascist police state. I share your concerns and alarm. But i want to play Skyrim and Steam is required so I accept and adapt. I will make my stand and fight the good fight elsewhere.
Also...even in a perfect world I would not quibble with digital distribution...I really do think it's an excellent way to distribute a game.

Well, from my perspective (after 4 attempts this morning to log into Steam because I forgot to 'game mode' my security), if I can sit at work, check steam store on my mobile phone, purchase a game and then remotely download it onto my PC at home, then play it as soon as I walk in the door, it's okay by me.

I haven't been hacked through Steam, I haven't had 'I love you long time' messages from blonde haired babes living in Lagos, and my games still work.

I'm certainly not looking down and no, generally I am quite terrible about reading the small print myself.

And I hope I don't seem hostile I just find it a shame that people are raising issues that, in a lot of cases, are centred on misinformation, speculations or things that can often be fixed. Steam FAQs and forum, PC tech forum here, there's a lot of people willing to try and help those who are experiencing technical issues with Steam.

It would also be a shame if people were put off buying Skyrim because of Steam when there's no need to be.

I'm sure there are a small minority of cases where Steam causes a genuine problem but I really don't think it's as widespread as some people are making out.

And I really would urge people to give Steam a chance - I've found some fantastic games that I'd have never heard about otherwise or gotten into because they've been so damned cheap in a Steam sale.

Several years ago I was actually was on the other side of the fence when Steam came with HL2. Valve eventually won me over by improving it to what it is today and I'm one of the most cynical people around when it comes to big business.

Well each to his own...but you do seem somewhat like King Canute!
Will you stick to this line and never fully patch the game?
Seems odd to me...but like I say, each to his own.