This is just WRONG.

If anything it enhances my ability to load on the multiple computers that I own without needing the original CD.

R

If you already use Steam, there's no reason not to buy it. Trying to take a poll of Steam users who buy Skyrim will give a very biased answer.

I refuse to buy Skyrim for PC because of Steam.

would have bought the game anyway because im an elderscrolls fan.. though i personally would have prefered it WITHOUT steam

I was about to applaud them for that, recalling that Fallout 3 worked the same way, and that I really liked and appreciated their decision.
~But with FO3 it was apparently a mistake; and one they seemingly made twice, having also made it with Skyrim. That follow up patch tactic is evil IMO. I now wish that I had bought Skyrim, installed, activated it, and then uninstalled Steam and never patched it.

you will probably find that 50% of the people on this forum dont even pay a cent for it

It would be absurd NOT to buy this game because of Steam. Do not let them ruin your fun. Just keep those threads regarding Steam coming and make yourself heard.

Ridiculous argument. Why would i hate my anti virus software? I CHOSE it, and CHOSE to install it because i WANTED it. It also Provides a service that i WANT. None of these apply to Steam. I had to get it despite not wanting it. and it provides me with absolutely nothing that i want. At all. And it keeps doing things without asking me and even occasionally impedes me from playing my game. These aren't comparable.

You CHOSE steam beacuse you CHOSE to buy skyrim. If you dident WANT steam, you shouldent have bought skyrim. Now they are going to go, "Well they all bought it even with steam last time, guess it wont hurt if we do it again."

Unless somebody forced you to buy skyrim, nobody put a gun up to your head and said, "Download it." You made a decision to buy a game with a program stuck on that you dident like. When I buy a game that has Origin or GFWL (I dont like origin or GFWL, and i want them to die) But I knew before hand that they had them, and i still bought it beacuse i wanted the game. Who is to blame for me having GFWL and Origin on my PC? Me.

If you dont want it, show it by not buying it. That causes them to change it in the future.

I hate the forced updates of games. However with so many SteamBabys™ around, one will be killed if complaining about steam so I'll just leave it to you guys.

So keeping with the anti virus anology of the other poster, what you're saying is if i choose not to have an anti virus program than i am choosing not to have a computer at all? And that if i didn't want an anti virus program i shouldn't have bought my computer in the first place? But if i choose to buy a computer than i am also choosing to get that anti virus automatically?

Ridiculous. the two don't compare.

I chose to buy skyrim, I had no choice in the matter whether it came with steam or not, unless i chose to go the pirated route.

The only thing you are actually saying is that their is no choice in the matter. We already know that, thats what we're complaining about.

I was not keeping with the Anti-Virus anology the other poster made, but I see you missed my point. You allways do have a choice, you chose to buy skyrim, and that means getting all the programs that came with it. And the other option was to not buy it, show them what you want with your wallet.

Sure i could "not buy it". But what i am saying here is the opposite, I'm saying i DO want this game, and trying to show them what i want by stating it clearly here.

They just added extra hassle to players. its much easier to just buy a game, install it and then start playing. Steam just gets in the way, and I only "use" it because I wanted to buy Skyrim. Nothing like this should be forced on customers without their consent. in fact I know a friend who never even heard of steam and wondered how he couldnt play Skyrim straight away when he bought it.

Most people would probably choose not to use steam if there was an option, but we have to put up with it simply for wanting to play a game.

This.

On weekends (especially holiday weekends) I'll switch to offline mode to minimize internet or Steam server outage impact.

These forums are probably not the best way to voice your opinion to the people in charge of Bethesda. They generally don't show up.

Fair warning to all - wall of text incoming!

---

WOW! What a terrific debate we have here.

Personally, I dislike steam and do not feel I have to justify that dislike here. Likewise, it seems many posting here like steam and they do not have to justify that liking to me or anyone else.

What is happening in this thread is polarisation. There are the two main camps – those that like Steam and those that loathe Steam with few posters undecided. So the debate is turning into a row. I hope it remains a civil debate with sensible arguments from both sides instead of a fight with either side trying to ‘beat down’ the other.

Right then! I had to get that off my chest so to speak.

I will not use pirated games on my PC – that is my choice. I would prefer to not have Steam on my PC – again my choice (for whatever reason). This argument about choice is, to me, one of the most important issues in this whole debate.

I fully understand that I made the choice to go with Steam in order to play Skyrim. As it is, I already had a Steam account due to getting a promotional free game that could only be downloaded (using promotion code) from Steam when I bought some hardware. The thing is though that I had problems getting the free game download that I could only attribute to steam at the time and as a result of this I uninstalled Steam and put the loss of the free game down to a bit of bad luck. At that point I vowed never to use steam again – though I had / have other issues in mind regarding Steam, my choice needs no further reasoning in this thread.

When I saw that Skyrim was in the making and there was an estimated release date I only read two short articles about the game and neither of the articles I read at that time mentioned that Skyrim would need Steam. Having no wish to read ‘spoilers’, I did not read any further articles and simply waited until I saw Skyrim on the shelf of a computer game retailer. (I even told friends not to talk to me about Skyrim till I played it – to minimise ‘spoilers’!)

When I bought Skyrim, I did not read the back of the box as I had limited time so did not see the notice about Steam (my fault entirely I suppose). What I did do at the time of purchase was ask the seller if I would need the internet or would have to sign up to any third party services to play the game – I was told that I may have to use the internet to verify purchase but that I DID NOT NEED TO SIGN UP TO OR BE A MEMBER OF ANY THIRD PARTY SERVICE TO PLAY SKYRIM.

So, in my opinion I was miss-sold Skyrim but this is a retailer problem. I took over a week to decide that I would ‘bite the bullet’ and install Skyrim and the forced on me Steam and reactivate my Steam account rather than try to get a refund on my (then) unopened Skyrim. In the end I wanted to play Skyrim enough to accept the forced use of Steam. I would much prefer to cancel my Steam account and remove Steam from my PC, instead I am unfairly forced to use a ‘service’ that I simply do not want.

Steam is disliked for many reasons by many people and I would hazard to guess that this is why many people have not bought Skyrim. I would like to point out also that I think it is a fair assumption that people that have not bought Skyrim because they do not like or want Steam have no reason to come onto these forums and discuss why they have not bought the game – thus, we are not getting a fair ‘sample’ of posters that do not like Steam.

All said and done, Steam is a great service for those that like it and wish to use it.

However, for whatever reasons, a lot of people do not like and do not want Steam.

It is unfair of Bethesda to force customers to use Steam and have no other option than to either not play Skyrim or resort to other means to get the game. It is certainly unfair of Bethesda to (seemingly) assume that everyone that buys Skyrim is a potential ‘pirate’ – that assumption puts out the message that Bethesda finds customers guilty of a potential crime until proven innocent. Bethesda does need to take some sort of action against loss of sales due to piracy – this is undoubtedly true. There are other systems available to copy protect Skyrim rather than forcing paying, honest, customers to use Steam. Furthermore Steam did not stop Skyrim from being pirated!

That’s it! I am done! Sorry for the wall of text – I do tend to go on a bit when I feel I have a valid opinion to put out. Like Steam or loathe it, either way enjoy Skyrim.

With all respect, I have been using Steam for years. I have NEVER once had the problem of connecting to play one of my dozens of games. Maybe it is the servers you have selected? Does this happen to you guys regularly?

I remember a year or two ago new downloads would be slow, but not anymore.

R

There is no other way to contact Bethesda. They don't read e-mails, they hire people to do it and those people weed out the complaints so the people who the complaint was intended to reach don't have to bother with reading it. Snail mail, the same thing. They most likely delete any P.M.'s you send them without even reading them.

That leaves the message board as the only thing they are most likey to read just to see how many people kiss their ass. This is what happens when a company less success get to their heads instead of continuing what made them successful by interacting with the members of the forums, their fans, and actually listen to and understand the complaints and concerns.

They don't post as they used to, I remember when we could actually discuss stuff with them to some degree which is unfortunate, but, they come on here and read quite a bit. Better to say out loud what i dislike than simply becoming unheard by not buying.

Thats great for you, but not for everyone else.

They have steam problems? the only one i had was this one time when i woke up i couldn't remember my password.. buy the game turn offline mode on there you go....skyrim offline!

I bought 10 or so games through steam and then a random client update corrupted my steam client. Every single game became unplayable. I contacted their support who had me try various things. Eventually they got it working again, but whenever I tried to load a savegame the game would crash with a steam security error. I lost patience with them and asked if they could just refund the games and forget it. They directed me to the steam user agreement which states that by buying from steam you forfeit all rights and guarantees to being able to use those software products. While researching whether that was legally binding I found many cases of people who had their steam accounts disabled (for assorted reasons) locking them out of everything purchased through steam. In some cases it amounted to thousands of dollars of software instantly made unusable. I'm not saying steam sets out to do this or scam anyone, but by using them you give them complete discretion to disable (deliberately or accidentally) your access to that software. You don't own any product you purchase through steam.

Steam is a great option ~until it's no longer optional.

In my case it would not matter if Steam worked flawlessly 99.9% of the time... I do not want it; nor tolerate it willingly. I do tolerate it (barely) for the time being; but I've been considering building a 2nd game rig with limited LAN and Wan access for Steam apps and trivial apps; and/or apps I don't trust yet. This rig would have a physical off switch on its network connection, and essentially remain a clean install; possibly (and preferably a VM that wipes changes when rebooted).

*Hmmm... It might work as a VM on my main system instead of needing the 2nd PC; (quad-core, soon to be hex-core)... I might try that out soon. if it works... Steam is gone.

i didn’t know about the Steam thing when i ordered it. If I had known I would have waited a while to see how it worked out for others.

You still cannot store your Skyrim game saves on Steam, so it's rather useless to me.

Same here