[Tanika O'Connell]

Lots of good information & ideas. I think we should formulate numerical formula to calculate the weight, damage, speed and values of our weapons. Lets use the Basic iron Longsword as a base and from there modify the values up and down for each style, material and therefor combination.

[neen]

So it's essentially the two seperate philosophies of armour?
Armour is there to stop a blow from hurting you.
or
Armour is there to offer some minor protect against glancing blows that shouldn't have hit you in the first place.

Some thoughts on a potential Unarmoured/Dodging replacement of the light armour skill:

Spoiler

Maybe it should be called "Dodging" rather than "Unarmoured"? If only because unarmoured and poorly armoured aren't quite the same thing.

It probably wouldn't be too hard to adapt the light armor perk tree to a dodging perk tree.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/index.php?title=Agile_Defender&action=edit&redlink=1 (5) Increase armor rating for Light Armor by 20% (+20% per additional rank)
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Custom_Fit 25% armor bonus if wearing all Light Armor: head, chest, hands, feet
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Unhindered Light Armor weighs nothing and doesn't slow you down when worn
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/index.php?title=Wind_Walker&action=edit&redlink=1 Stamina regenerates 50% faster in all Light Armor: head, chest, hands, feet
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Matching_Set Additional 25% Armor bonus if wearing a matched set of Light Armor.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/index.php?title=Deft_Movement&action=edit&redlink=1 10% chance of avoiding all damage from a melee attack while wearing all Light Armor: head, chest, hands, feet

The whole tree could be changed to a "If wearing armour that weighs less than a total of x or wearing no armour at all" instead. Though there's not much on offer for people who aren't wearing any armour at all.

Off the top of my head I can think of three ways to manage skill progression for what's currently light armour if all armours are moved to a new Armoured skill that replaces Heavy Armour:
1. Have a script that measures the total weight of the characters equipped armour and increases the Dodging skill alongside armoured if they're struck whilst wearing light armour (doesn't make a great deal of sense, seeing as the idea of the skill is to avoid being hit).
2. Remove the skill progression completely. All perks are buyable from the get go and there's no number or progression attached to the skill (simple but it's a little unfair to players who choose to not use armour/metal armours when it comes to levelling).
3. Have a script that runs whenever combat starts that slowly ticks up your unarmoured skill if your armour weight is under the threshold (Your unarmoured skill improves by being in combat in light armour/no armour, not by being hit in it).

Though that still leaves the question of what those numbers would actually mean. Maybe a scripted +x% chance to avoid all damage from an attack per skill point?

[No Name]

Let's focus on weapons... for now. We still have a ways to go before we hit version 1.0.

[sarah]

I'm really liking the new weapons, my only suggestion for improvement would be to shorten the weapon names a bit, they are kind of long. Maybe drop the racial names (but leave them in the flavor text) and give each weapon type a unique name to differentiate them? Something like:

Iron Longsword -> Iron Sword
Iron Nordic Longsword -> Iron Viking Sword
Iron Breton Longsword -> Iron Longsword
Iron Dwemeri Broadsword -> Iron Broadsword
Iron Imperial Spatha -> Iron Spatha
Iron Akaviri Katana -> Iron Katana
And etc...

Also, do the new silver weapons still do extra damage to the undead? The flavor text doesn't say.

[Richard Dixon]

I'm really liking the new weapons, my only suggestion for improvement would be to shorten the weapon names a bit, they are kind of long. Maybe drop the racial names (but leave them in the flavor text) and give each weapon type a unique name to differentiate them? Something like:

Iron Longsword -> Iron Sword
Iron Nordic Longsword -> Iron Viking Sword
Iron Breton Longsword -> Iron Longsword
Iron Dwemeri Broadsword -> Iron Broadsword
Iron Imperial Spatha -> Iron Spatha
Iron Akaviri Katana -> Iron Katana
And etc...

Also, do the new silver weapons still do extra damage to the undead? The flavor text doesn't say.

They're made of silver, so they should do whatever it is the other silver weapons do. That's a keyword feature. I haven't had any silver weapons in-game yet, lol, but mine will work the same way as the vanilla ones.

The names are still in early stages, I'm open to suggestions. I just need to keep historical & lore accuracy in mind.

[Queen of Spades]

The Iron Sword has a base damage value of 7, Daedric Sword has a base damage value of 15. So to retain the games origonal balance we probably want to use those two values as the approximate min-max for one handed swords.

If we use the system I posted earlier with different values for materials swords get their damage through 50% Hardness + 50% Edge values of materials.
Iron is worst at both of those, so the min value could be given as 3.5, through to daedric which would be 7.5 for each.
Which results in:

Hardness (Softest to Hardest):
Iron (3.5) -> Moonstone (4.0) -> Steel (4.5) -> Dwemer (5.0) -> Orichalcum (5.5) -> Glass = Ebony (6.5) -> Daedric (7.5)
Edge (Dullest to sharpest):
Iron (3.5) -> Orichalcum (4.0) -> Steel (4.5) -> Dwemer (5.0) -> Moonstone (5.5) -> Ebony (6.0) -> Glass (6.5) -> Daedric (7.5)

Starting with the basic sword:
Iron: 7
Steel: 9
Dwemer: 10
Orichalcum: 9.5
Moonstone: 9.5
Ebony: 12.5
Glass: 13
Daedric: 15.

Compared to the default one handed swords:
Iron: 7
Steel: 8
Orcish: 10
Dwarven: 10
Elven: 12
Glass: 12
Ebony: 13
Daedric: 15


Expanding on that as a base:

Spoiler

Nordic:
Iron: 8
Steel: 10
Dwemer: 11
Orichalcum: 10.5
Moonstone: 10.5
Ebony: 13.5
Glass: 14
Daedric: 16.

Orcish:
Iron: 7
Steel: 9
Dwemer: 10
Orichalcum: 9.5
Moonstone: 9.5
Ebony: 12.5
Glass: 13
Daedric: 15.


Altmer:
Iron: 7
Steel: 9
Dwemer: 10
Orichalcum: 9.5
Moonstone: 9.5
Ebony: 12.5
Glass: 13
Daedric: 15.

Dunmer:
Iron: 6
Steel: 8
Dwemer: 9
Orichalcum: 8.5
Moonstone: 8.5
Ebony: 11.5
Glass: 12
Daedric: 14.

Dwemer:
Iron: 9
Steel: 11
Dwemer: 12
Orichalcum: 11.5
Moonstone: 11.5
Ebony: 14.5
Glass: 15
Daedric: 17.

Ornate Altmer:
Iron: 7
Steel: 9
Dwemer: 10
Orichalcum: 9.5
Moonstone: 9.5
Ebony: 12.5
Glass: 13
Daedric: 15.

Dremora:
Iron: 9
Steel: 11
Dwemer: 12
Orichalcum: 11.5
Moonstone: 11.5
Ebony: 14.5
Glass: 15
Daedric: 17.

[Becky Palmer]

All the new weapons you have added do make the game much more visually interesting.

I'm not real good at figuring out how to describe balance and stuff. What I'm reading here is pretty darn interesting.

You will need to be making a new thread soon.

[Tamara Dost]

I don't know if I can enter decimals for damage values. Should I round up or down you think? I do really like your logic & result though. Very good.

[Marine Arrègle]

I don't know if I can enter decimals for damage values. Should I round up or down you think? I do really like your logic & result though. Very good.

I was also thinking that decimals for damage values are probably best stayed away from. It would probably be better to round up, though. Personal opinion, anywho.

To explain though: It would make Ebony 13 which puts it on par with Glass. Now the end-user has two nice damaging items (assuming one is going for as much damage as possible and connot yet attain Daedric weapons) to choose from instead of one.

[Jose ordaz]

I was also thinking that decimals for damage values are probably best stayed away from. It would probably be better to round up, though. Personal opinion, anywho.

To explain though: It would make Ebony 13 which puts it on par with Glass. Now the end-user has two nice damaging items (assuming one is going for as much damage as possible and connot yet attain Daedric weapons) to choose from instead of one.

Which is a good end result, and not contrary to lore. I like it. Though, with all of the new crafting styles available, they will have much more than 2 to choose from.

[Epul Kedah]

Ah, I completely forgot about decimals.

Here's them rounded off with swing speed and weight.

Spoiler

Basic Sword:

Iron:
Dam: 7
Speed: 1
Weight: 9

Steel:
Dam: 9
Speed: 1
Weight: 10

Silver:
Dam 9
Speed: 1
Weight: 10

Dwemer:
Dam: 10
Speed: .9
Weight: 12

Orichalcum:
Dam: 9
Speed 1
Weight: 11

Moonstone:
Dam: 9
Speed: 1.1
Weight: 7

Ebony:
Dam: 13
Speed: .9
Weight: 13

Glass:
Dam: 13
Speed 1.1
Weight: 8

Daedric:
Dam: 14
Speed .9
Weight: 14

Glass looks a little unbalanced here, having both lower weight and a higher swing speed at the same damage, but Ebony and Daedric would theoretically have higher critical damage and short swords and daggers are where glass really shines using this system, whereas ebony is slightly better for axes and packs a real punch in hammers and maces.

[jessica robson]

Finished the bunk-beds. Going to call it a night. Almost finished-up implementing 1-handed swords. Halfway through Ornate and need to do Daedric & Dunmer styles. I'll probably upload a new version at that point, for in-game testing, and then begin work on 2handers.

[Baylea Isaacs]

I remember when you were JUST starting out with this mod. Damn have you come far

[Veronica Flores]

Albatross: regarding sharpness - Dwemers prefered hammers,Orks axes - i think Orichalcum should be probably sharper than Dwemer metal..

[Skivs]

I'm not sure about it being sharper than Dwemer steel, as Orcish weapons put me in mind of Maori weapons like:

Spoiler

http://www.shopenzed.com/site/images/93984.jpg
http://i1.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/draft_lens7793121module68756681photo_1258295072greenstone-toki-adze-maori-weapon.jpg
http://i2.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/250/draft_lens9368481module83660811photo_1265798752taiaha-greenstone-wood.jp

Which are hard as nails, but don't really hold an edge. The Orcish style weapons back that up by being pretty savage and blunt looking weapons that seem more focused on crushing and maiming than sharpness.

I do plan on them being one of the premier axe materials though, and for Dwemer to be great for blunt, but I haven't really balanced any of the formula for figuring out damages yet, everything I've posted so far has been just off the top of my head.

However the final say for all of this is with Baratan and I'm sure he's got his own ideas for how the different materials and styles should work.

[Kitana Lucas]

There's plenty of time between now & completion to brainstorm ideas. I'm not going to implement balance changes until we're 100% sure on 100% of them and they can all be implemented across the board at once.

Do you think we could start a balance Google doc like we did for the unique item descriptions so that the information doesn't get lost?

[Marcin Tomkow]

I don't know if I can enter decimals for damage values. Should I round up or down you think? I do really like your logic & result though. Very good.

I would round up.

There's plenty of time between now & completion to brainstorm ideas. I'm not going to implement balance changes until we're 100% sure on 100% of them and they can all be implemented across the board at once.

Do you think we could start a balance Google doc like we did for the unique item descriptions so that the information doesn't get lost?

That is a good idea. I've never set up something like that, but I would be happy to learn how to get one started if you would like me to do it.

[Kayla Bee]

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1332041-relwip-armoury-of-tamriel-thread-6/

My final statement on the subject of compatibility information.
Compatibility information isn't quite the same as a compatibility list or compatibility section. This information is universal and independent of which mod you're looking at. If you're interested in learning about Skyrim mod compatibility read this article.
http://forums.theelderscrollsskyrim.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5743
The information is and has been out there for anyone willing to look for it. I didn't write the guide and I'm not interested in writing one either. Simply put, if someone is concerned about compatibility they can figure it out on their own. It's not something I plan to invest any time in.
Simply stating which objects are changed is a waste of my time. a. You can open the .esp in any tool and see for yourself. b. Every-time the version changes, different objects are changed. c. I'm not going to waste unnecessary time explaining things people should be able to figure out on their own.

If an interested person would type their question "Skryim Mod Compatibility" into I don't know, Google or something, they would get all the answers they're looking for. There's no need for me to go through and repeat things which are already written. I prefer to spend my time writing and creating things which have not yet been written or created, not wasting my time repeating the same things over, and over and over despite them already being written by a dozen other people in a dozen other places. If I wanted to do that, I'd be a school teacher, not a Skyrim Modder.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1332041-relwip-armoury-of-tamriel-thread-6/