So... any news about an update?

This mod is great, I just used it for my hybrid sword and shield/destruction character, and it was pretty fun to have a viable ranged damage alternative.

I keep getting into arguments over in general discussion though, over destruction dps versus other combat styles. Would you happen to know how quickly the various destructions spells can be cast? Like attacks per second for firebolt and incinerate, single and dual cast. There don't seem to be any numbers available online anywhere.

AFAIK, there isn't solid info yet, or if there is it isn't widely known.

Using Skyedit, you can pull stats like this (very simplified list):
http://i.imgur.com/LwIAx.jpg

It looks like CastingDelay is casting time, but that's unconfirmed.

If you want, I could send you a csv or spreadsheet, but the best thing to do would be to download skyedit (if you're on PC).

http://github.com/uesp/skyedit

Thanks, I've taken a look at the spells in SkyEdit though, the CastingDelay (or casting time) you mentioned seems to be zero for single cast versions of destruction spells, and since you can't just sit there firing them as fast as you can tap the attack button, I think that number is just an extra delay that adds to however long the casting animation takes. I seem to remember some fields in the GECK's weapon editor that would tell you things like firing rate and reload time, taking animation into account, so hopefully the CK will provide similar information. I guess I could always just fire up the game and manually time how long it takes to cast the spells.

*Edit - Ok, I actually went in game and timed attack speed. One handed melee (not dual wield) I had about 1.17 attacks per second. I could cast fireball at about 0.87 attacks per second, no discernible difference for dual casting. If you're timing it perfectly, you might be able to squeeze a slightly higher aps out of destruction, but that was the best I could do.

Yeah, sorry, Skyedit is pretty far along considering the CK isn't out, but there's still a lot of unknown fields. Do you think that novice spells are noticeably slower than adept spells? I haven't played a mage in a few weeks, but IIRC there wasn't much difference. It looks like CastingDelay adds a few seconds on to some of the higher level spells, but it varies by spell (the reanimate spells take significantly longer, for example).

I haven't timed any other spells in game besides fireball, but according to SkyEdit, fireball, firebolt, and incinerate all have the same casting time, casting animation, and casting type, so I'd imagine they all have the same number of attacks per second. The handful of other spells I looked at (lightning bolt, thunderbolt) are the same. Interestingly, it looks like the left handed version of incinerate is bugged - unlike all those other fire spells, its casting time is 0, so I guess you should probably be able to cast incinerate faster with your left hand. There also doesn't seem to be a left hand version of thunderbolt.

Left-hand, right-hand, and both-hand versions of spells are (I think) for NPCs only.

Huh, interesting. The plain "incinerate" version is listed as using the "either hand" equipment slot, and has damage 60, so I guess that's the PC version, and covers left hand, right hand, and dual casting for the player. And I guess that means that NPC's are unable to dual cast?

I suspect they only dual cast when they have a "bothhands" version of the spell. So that means only certain spells get dual cast (and some spells can only be dual cast, such as invisibility). Whether or not they need the perk, I don't know.

Well, mysty seems to have vanished; which is a pity as there are a few minor bugs here and there. Offhand, the Destruction perk tree descriptions are kind of strange. Novice has the damage bonus listed correctly alongside the magicka cast reduction, but every other tier reads: "increases spell damage and magicka cost". I can't open it in SkyEdit either; keep getting errors. There's also the issue with the Adept spells not levelling up Destruction correctly (i.e. they're slower than Firebolt and Flames).

I'm no modder, so I have no idea how to fix these.

I've also tried fiddling with it in SkyEdit with no luck. Although Adept spells seem to scale just fine for me; my fireball is exceedingly (perhaps too) powerful.

Anyone else unable to open the Destruction plugin with Skyedit?

Apologies for going MIA - I founded a game studio, and things have really been ramping up lately (which is exciting, but leaves me little free time to actually PLAY games or work on personal projects!) I've also been watching for the CK to be released as I was running into walls trying to implement some of my ideas for this mod using only hex codes. I downloaded the CK the day it was released, but I've GOT to finish some contract work for my studio by Friday (tomorrow!) so I won't get to jump in and start modding until this weekend. I'll try to have some updates for you guys soon!

Congratulations on your studio!
And take your time!

That's awesome! Take your time mysty. I wouldn't begrudge you any kind of delay with an excuse like that... even though that's my dream you're livin' *shakes fist*

Wow, great to hear, and congratulations!

Nice One Mysty and welcome back - we've missed you X

Hey guys! I figured I would give you a quick update on how things are going.

I am rewriting Balanced Magic entirely now that the CK is out. This has allowed me to improve some of the ways things are calculated. For instance, destruction spell leveling will now be more directly based on your skill level instead of simply having a huge jump in damage and cost when you take a perk. The new method should also get rid of the experience gain issues at higher levels. A few of the values I changed in the previous version are more hidden in the CK than I expected, but I am starting to find my way around. Stay tuned for further updates!

I wouldn't mind seeing all of the bland +damage perks removed, and all +damage just tied to the raw skill. (This is something I want to see for all combat, btw, but we'll stick to magic here)

Then, replace the old +damage perk with something more fun and interesting, like improving the secondary effect of a destruction skill (freeze slows more, lighting saps more mana) incrementally instead of just as a terminal skill, upgrading the radius or duration or a spell, getting a special power or lesser power based upon that line of magic (power: burning rage -- increases speed and fire damage for 100 seconds while draining your own life etc), the ability to learn a certain magic skill faster... etc

If you like the idea of custom powers or lesser powers as flavor adding perks I'm sure myself and others can feed you more ideas. Would add more work for balancing, to be sure, but would pay off in the end.

Another thing is that you have a very nice mod started here and it would be a shame for it to go to the wayside if your (rightfully more important) work life becomes too demanding. Have you thought about working with a partner on this? I don't exactly have the time or else I'd volunteer, but maybe someone else here could help you...?

Well an update is certainly good news to me!

*grumble grumble* sig figs *grumble*

So all was going well until I ran into a minor problem with the new calculation method... I'll throw it out there in case any of you are awesome at math and have a suggestion for a work around.

Spell Magnitude *= 1 + (Destruction * 0.0075) is the formula I need. Unfortunately, that final multiplier will only allow me to have two digits past the decimal, so it's getting rounded up to 0.01. Basically, the most minor change I can do DOUBLES the damage at mastery (skill level 100), and that's too much damage if I don't nerf the original magnitude as I did in version 1.x. (Nerfing the values, as you may recall, caused the high end spells to give only as much experience as the low end spells, so leveling took MUCH longer at higher levels with the mod active.)

I'm going to get some sleep and come back to it refreshed tomorrow morning, but it looks like the experience gain "bug" may linger.

How flexible is the formula?

Because 0.01 * 0.75 = 0.0075

So something like (my brain's kinda fried ATM so there's most likely a cleaner way to put it):

Spell Magnitude * = 1 + (Destruction(0.01 * 0.75))

*= 1 + ((Dest*75)/10000) Should clear up precision errors on the formula, assuming anything like orders of operations are honored.

EDIT: Probably not going to work as the issue is probably on the precision of the final value your multiplier.

EDIT2: Might get it to work with an explicit formula if the above is the case so try = Base + (75*Dest*Base_DMG)/10000, if it really is precision being retained on the multiplier. Not elegant but unless it's totally fubar this should at least land in the proper integer's neighborhood for final damage values.

-Starcrunch

I'm guessing the final multiplier is a numeric gamesetting or something, and you have no other control over the equation?

Welcome back, Mysty! I am looking forward to your update!