you people are delirious, this game (on consoles) is awesome and better than ever, even with these "unpatched" bickerings

Go play your halo and call of duty, they miss you

Not now dear, advlts are talking.

Why do i feel this is going to turn into a platform war. ( Rolls eyes and walks out the thread.)

I'd rather know the full changelog than know when a patch comes, and I gotta love the silly pro-console nonsense banter trying to make us feel less important.

I would like to know both honestly. Then At least I can know if it's even worth waiting for it.

Nice. Although I would've hoped for a hdd install and some missing graphical effects put back in, at least they will fix the missing blood and particle effects.
Not to mention the game breaking glitches (hopefully).

The rumors before release of the BFG edition were that you could play Doom3 the oldschool way including the standard flashlight and the new, arranged BFG way.
I think it was even communicated by id themselves.
Looks like the timeline was to tight and that switchability got scrapped.
Maybe that Ati driver disaster with Rage took too much time to fix.

As for Doom4:
Rage runs pretty well on 360 in a side by side comparison with the pc version.
But i doubt that Doom4 will get a major release on this console generation.
Taking the momentary working speed of id into account with their big titles, it's likely that Doom4 will take some time to get released. There isn't even a streetdate yet.

Maybe they'll release it on this consoles generation in a trimmed down version and on the next generation in full pc detail as they did with Doom3 on the old Xbox.
Remember: They keep on repeating that Doom4 will blow everyone away technically and this won't happen on this generation hardware.

Doom 4 will probably be done 2 or 3 years after the next generation of consoles get released, who is going to be thinking of legacy consoles at that point : ).

That's what i had in mind.
But the advertising effect for Doom4 with the Doom3 BFG edition will have worn off then...

I doubt this.

I was looking at id's jobs page recently and noticed that they're looking for a programmer with DX11 experience for an as yet unannounced forthcoming project.

That tells me a number of things.

One is that the likelihood of Doom 4 being current gen is increased. It doesn't guarantee it but add in the fact that they've publicly stated that increasingly long development times are unsustainable, mix with a bit of how long we know Doom 4 has already been in development for, blend in previous statements that it may take far less time than we think, and things really begin to swing that way.

Two is that - after the Rage fiasco - there is a possibility they may be about to do the unthinkable and drop OpenGL. That's not so shocking; it's in keeping with their "we're not going to crusade off a cliff" statements in the late 90s (but boy did they come close).

Three is that there's high probability that they've been disclosed on the 360's successor and that it's going to be DX11 class hardware. Neither should be a surprise to anyone.

OpenGL had nothing to do with the Rage "fiasco", it's just a pain in the ass to send a sh*t ton of data to the card every frame and keep everything in sync. There could have been some vendor specific problems, but it's not because of the API. Both API's keep developers at arms length from the hardware, there is no better rendering api for anything. I've done virtual texturing in both API's, and had the same problems in both. DX11 is also going to be used on the 720 so it could be that. Either way they won't drop opengl cause unlike the ps3 I read someplace the ps4 will use convential archetecture and provide the entire opengl api. 720 dev kits have gone out already.

In terms of tech, tech for the next 4-6 years isn't going to increase much if it all, its going to be more speeding up the pipeline, rather than fancier graphics, so it's a moot point.

EDIT:
Remember on the 360, you have shared memory between the graphics card and everything else so you don't have to transfer data to the video card after you read it from the HD.

Yeah, yeah it does. Why did AMD video cards had HORRIBLE glitches all over the place for ages? Because their drivers didn't bother to support OpenGL properly. Nvidia had that too, if I remember correctly, but they fixed it relatively quickly.

ATI develops quality hardware at a cheap price, the problem with ATI is there drivers. It's not because of the OpenGL spec that Rage didn't work on some ATI cards it was a combination of people not updating there drivers(which is VERY important if you own a ATI card), and because they just make half assed drivers that just do the bare minimum to get everything in the API spec working. I also remember reading somewhere both ATI and NVIDIA were supposed to provide the needed extensions with proper functionality before Rage's release they both dropped the ball on that one.

OpenGL and Direct3D are really the same thing, and the problem really is OpenGL and Direct3D need to go away, they are just a nasty abstraction layer that keep developers at arms length from the hardware, but to vigorously say one is better than the other is just false, they are both equally obnoxious to work with, when doing what the api supports, and doing what it doesn't provide direct support for like virtual texturing.

As far as i know, the 360 graphics lib is closer to DX9 than 11. So it's more likely the "720".
Keeping in mind that the release of the 720 is scheduled somewhere in 2013, it's rumored that chip production is already running, a release of Doom4 on nextgen consoles is realistic.
Only thing that comes to mind is that titles that have an early release on nextgen hardware usually suffer from the small customer base at the beginning of a console's lifecycle which will reduce sales.
Additionally, the development kits are less optimized at the start, the unusual hardware concepts need some time to get used to which leads to early titles looking worse than the hardware can deliver.
360's start titles look like ass compared to what was released recently.
The difference in rendering quality between Gears of War 1 and Gears of War 3 is huge giving the impression it's running on a newer hardware.

Looks like we have the same view towards what is wrong with graphics on pc.
I always promoted huge local memory for graphics cards on pc to prevent unnecessary copying. Neither AGP nor PCI express make sense when copying can be totally avoided with storing all data at the right place at load time and just setting the respective pointers for the rendering pipeline.
And a more direct and standardized hardware access would be highly welcome.
The permanent problems with running into incompatibilites between graphics libs and drivers usually makes me shift as much code as possible onto the main cpu to prevent problems later with faulty software that's outside my own code.

My own engine is slower and less effect-heavy than it should be.
For compatibility and maintenance reasons.

And this can't be the future of programming on pc with these high powered gpus of today.
I hope that someday supporting different gpus will be as easy as switching the compiler optimizations in my C++ dev kit to a certain cpu type.

Blah blah blah, sod the gpu's, cpu's and shaders, where's the damn patch?!

C'mon, god dammit!

it be done when its done better it take lil longer as they have more time to test and add to the patch and address all the issues. atleast we know the patch is on the way! patch notes on the other hand would be a nice to know as we know of some fixes that are being implemented but im more interested in if the multiplayer issues if/are being addressed !

That's not the best route, remember there is Cuda/OpenCL so you can bypass a lot of the API problems yourself by having direct access to the GPU.

Where I found the QA ? I want know the patch change log ! ( https://twitter.com/idBrianHarris

@Eternal_Wolf mostly bug fixes. It's in QA now. )

I posted that like 10 posts up, they won't release any type of changelog until release just in case during QA something has to be changed.

.

I don't understand all these complaints myself. Many of you guys act like the game is broken. Single player is very much playable at this point. Please let Bethesda focus on real problems. Multi-player is the real problem. The game is completely broken and is a joke. P2P is a major factor in these issues. This game needs dedicated server support, which mind you is actually there in the coding. It just needs to be unlocked and implimented. Bethesda please kill doom3 (original version) and set up the server list for BFG (PC Platform). BFG multi-player has a lot of potential and is the overall better multi player game (better net coding, better engine, 120 FPS and 120htz). But until you make it dedicated and fix the lag issues it is crap. If Bethesda didn't intend on making it work they should have very well omitted it from the game then I woudln't have bought the game to begin with. Let's focus on real problems and let the petty stuff get fixed later guys....

Great point. Hence.... http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1417524-doom-3-bfg-edition-xbox-360-version-needs-a-patch/