ha ha ha, they never learn,,,

If they hadn't, this forum wouldn't be blasting with 1700+ pages, half with complains about smithing.

It's all part of the plan

From a gameplay perspective, it makes perfect sense. What would be the use of smithing/enchanting if you can simply buy or loot the best possible equipment/enchantments? For roleplay, there's many ways to explain it.

No you cant,playing game for the first time you would never know how to do it,and it normally takes 200+ hours to finish whole game for the first time.Playing for second time after beating main quest already surely you can,cause you would know how to do it,but why would you do that? lame post..

Again, I found the thing by sheer chance, on my very first character, just by following the road...

Well, I am playing skyrim as my first TES game, and I have 30-40 hours clocked in on expert, I don't find it imbalance, I don't have thousands of gold people were talking about that allows me to buy irons to make daggers to level up blacksmithing. When I find an "elven helmet of Destruction" I feel accomplished because I can finally upgrade my helm.

You guys must be playing it different than me, cause after 30-40 hours, I only killed my 2nd dragon. There are bugs but I don't find it all that bad.

And this is from a first time TES gamer's point of view.

Rogue4ever, i take it from your post that you play destruction. What level are you?

Destruction will feel fine until level 40+. Thats when it all goes to [censored], because your damage never goes higher then what you did at lvl 35, while everything's hp does.

I was happy for a long time, but after 100 hours these problems OP mentions are becoming more and more obvious.
The game looks good, it's huge and alot of fun at first, but it seems like Bethesda completely ignored the balance side of the game and it really hurts the longevity and replayability of the game.
Poor balance reduces options and sandbox game like Skyrim with limited options and limited playstyles is just bad.

Massive modding needed.

Any excuse as to why they do the least dps, and have the least efficiency, and require the strictest utility reliance in the game?

Even conjuration and illusion will give you superior Master difficulty performance, destro over bow will actually considerably slow you down unless you exploit enchanting.

You found what?An amulet? And you knew where Sunder,Keening,Wraithguard were,you knew where Dagoth Ur was and completed main quest in "few minutes"? Impossible for first time playing.

So basically you don't like game mechanics that have been in place since Morrowind...

The difference is that it was an embraced game mechanic in Morrowind, and now it's a "broken" mechanic in Skyrim.

I also don't feel much sympathy for people who power level the crafting skills to 100 ASAP, and then complain that the game is "too easy"

And for those talking about how "easy" it is to level Smithing - I would like to see just how easy it is to level Smithing without going out of your way to power level. I have used Smithing in a natural capacity (creating new armor when needed, and upgrading new armor when I find it) and my Smithing level hasn't skyrocketed.

It should not be possible to craft one low level item to get to master level in any trade.

This is one change I would make. Simple

+ You shouldn't be able to get hands on material for higher level gear before you reach certain level.

You can do this. Why do you need a developer to institute a mechanic to employ this solution.

Amusingly, I avoided putting any points in a crafting skill since I feared leveling up on non-combat skills would gimp me (as in Oblivion). I'm now level 30 after 92 hours. Hardly a min/max build. I've put perks in light armor, destruction, one-handed, alteration the first two alchemy and now the first two in enchanting. My enchanting skill is still in the mid-40s I believe and I notice a massive difference in the difficulty now. Before I was pwned by cave bears, draugr overlords and bandit bosses. Now with just the increased enchanting on a couple of items I find a marked difference.

I'm not overpowered or godlike by any means, but it is noticeable that gameplay has shifted. It's obvious if I were to continue down the enchanting path I could make myself greater than any enemy I'd face. I shudder to think what havoc I'd wreak if I put perk points in smithing as well. This is disappointing and now I am avoiding crafting anything other than a bit of jewelry to sell and relying on bound swords rather than enchanting weapons.

I can't wait for mods to dampen the crafting as it really is accidentally overpowering. I also don't see the point in the lockpicking or pickpocket perks; surely these should offer some real benefit and I shouldn't be able to open an expert chest with a handful of picks and low skill. I love Bethesda games. I'm a massive TES and Fallout really devoted fan but the OP is right, this isn't balanced. This requires an effort to not use what is intuitive and natural in order to keep the game from being a cakewalk.

edit: lol, 'fan boy' is censored? And I didn't even touch on my disappointment with the magic system and destruction in particular. Suffice to say, aside from an overly contentious thread title, I completely agree with the OP.

First of all, I one lined because I must have written numerous essays on this subject by now, and I apologise if it seemed petty. So I will address points by points. I completely agree with you that there is a certain method of approaching the game which does make it easier, however, I do disagree that your approach was natural in any way. You clearly know the series, and it must have occurred to you that dropping all your levels into smithing perks and smithing skill to obtain the obtain the best kit the game could offer would give you an advantage beyond your skill level. The standard argument that "but it LET ME" does not engender sympathy, and maybe you're right, a problem Oblivion tried to solve with a sledgehammer by introducing new armour at certain skill points and really hurt the game experience.

Oddly enough it was the first thing that occurred to me when I looked at Smithing perks for the first time, however I wasn't having any trouble at that point, so I had no motivation to get into an arms race with the game. Obviously you felt motivated to do so, and were rewarded with the best items in the game and ploughed through it all. Personally I think its great that this is always an option, but not one that appeals to me, or many others. I'm gratified that we've gotten past calling it a bug, and moved onto "poor game mechanics" at least, but until we see a solution that does not punish the casual smither I will remain opposed to the idea that this is an issue that needs to be fixed.


But the game IS hard on Master. What is the point of a difficulty setting that can only be beaten by focusing a character on a certain combination. As I'm sure you're the first to attest to, not all classes are created equal, and thats a discussion all in itself.

Now, I freely confess I haven't tried Master, but I very much doubt its a walk in the park at high levels with just daedric armour and no other combinations. If you can freely tell me Master is a cakewalk for a magic focused, or stealth focused character as much as a fighter/alchemist/enchanter, you have a convert and I will agree the combat difficulty slider needs work, or at least, further gradients until we have uber-1hit kill mudcrabs.

From my point of view, what you are asking for, is that the difficulty slider is adjusted dynamically depending on the skills you have opted to focus on, and the programming required for that makes my eyes water. Of course they just make things hit harder and take more.. I'm sure you are not asking for that.. so what are you asking for? For absolutely every other permutation of character to be unable to compete at that difficulty? Even a pure mage is capable of taking on Master as it is, but its very hard work, and involves a lot more skill. But is doable. The fact remains, you focus a character on taking advantage of every ability to increase damage and take damage, and thats what you achieve.


I actually agree with this to a certain degree, only that it is a little absurd to use the most min/maxed statistics as a comparison. Its the worst kind of statistical argument because it ignores the average, and focuses on extremes and combat only. I don't really think, myself included that we feel the warrior was doing 500:1 damage as opposed to a magic user.. they clearly aren't unless its pushed to extremes.

Exactly what tree trivialises every single aspect, can you honestly not imagine having a character who doesn't focus on one skill to the exclusion of all others?


I would argue that your description of the compulsion your character felt to chase smithing down to "ultimate in mortal ability" level at a lower level clearly does show some form of compulsion to exult the characters abilities beyond the requirements of the world. You didn't NEED enchanted daedric to meet your challenges, you simply assumed that there would be something to cause you difficulty, and prepared for it, which while logically sound, is akin to ensuring you've developed nuclear bombs before trying to conquer the indians just in case they've developed nukes.. its contrary to the evidence present (I can do extreme examples which figure poorly anolytically too). I must confess, my wording was offensive, as nobody likes to believe they are compelled by their own character to do something which causes them discontent.


Not playing solely for roleplaying. In a roleplaying game. Think about it. You overpowered naturally, because you applied a focus on beating the game rather than use the game for its intended purpose and quite honestly, you got exactly what you wanted, you beat the game.. at its highest difficulty.. well done. By your own admission you miss the point. Difficulty is relative, and frankly unimportant.

Without the sentient intelligence of a GM, or DM or Ref to dynamically impose difficulty based upon a players ability it is up to the player to focus the difficulty to their satisfaction.

This is not a game to be beaten, or a MMO where wizards have to be able to stand toe to toe with a warrior. There is no RPG where you play a single character capable of several different roles, and have every role equivalent to each other in potential to "beat the game".

If your criticism is based upon the game not being what you want it to be.. thats not really Bethsedas fault. Its certainly not without fault and I could fill an essay with my own criticisms, and every single one of your points has an element of truth in moderation I do not deny, but when everything is taken from the element of extremes, or maxed out skills, again, the ultimate in mortal achievement.. its a little weak. Its not nearly so bad as you would have people believe, and the ferocity of arguments requries the counterarguments to be equally extreme, and I'm as guilty as you are of that.

My experiences however, have concurred with popular reception so far, and I am blown away by this title. Nothing perfect, nothing ever is, and we can completely agree and shake hands on the fact it can't be made perfect for everyone, and its a shame its not what you wanted, but its arrogant to demand it is changed to the tastes of a vocal minority to the exclusion or detriment of those who enjoy it.

If, an unbiased poll showed that a majority of purchasers shared your issues, rest assured Bethseda will listen in order to sell more units next time.

Um..... that's kind of the definition of "choice". You CHOOSE to powerlevel & synergize your Crafting skills. Or you CHOOSE not to.

If you stack a million different recursive Enchanting/Smithing/Alchemy bonuses and use them to turn out fantastically overpowered items, I'm not sure how you have any leg to stand on in complaining about it - because it was (there it is again) your CHOICE to do so. Nothing in the game (or out of it, for that matter) forced you to do so, it was entirely voluntary.


Choice.?

I don't see any problems with Skyrim and if you are having trouble then you need to focus on your main combat skill, whether that's One handed, Two Handed, Archery, and Destruction.

SINGLE PLAYER GAME

NONE OF THIS MATTERS.

END.

Maybe it does not matter to you, but it matters for a lot of players. Some don't play a game only to compete against other players, they play to compete against the challenge offered by the developers. And this single player "competition" requires well balanced mechanics, yes.

The game is balanced against "normal" play.

Its not balanced against min/max play.

If you min/max, which btw, the purpose of doing is to BECOME overpowered, then you break the balance. Big damn surprise.

The game gives you the FREEDOM to break it, and you're upset about it. With freedom of game play, there is the possibility to exploit, its the character of the player that determines how often and to what extreme these exploits are used.

Personally, I love the freedom enough to appreciate it for what it is. I have 3 characters, all feel pretty powerful, I've had no issues with magic, melee, or archery. I set "rules" on my character so that they develop the way I want them too...thats what you do in a game that gives you complete freedom, you take it upon yourself to narrow down certain things as to make that characters experience unique and interesting.

If you take 1 player, and do everything in the game with him. IMO you aren't getting the best game experience.

Even more simply: You played how you wanted to play, and the game let you do it. I didn't play like you did at ALL, and the game didn't punish me for it. That sounds fairly perfect to me. Contrary to popular belief, maxing out all your crafting skills is NOT required.

Yeah I have to agree that the game has problems. It gives the illusion that the enemies are based on the same stats as you but then you actually crunch the numbers and you find that a person 1 hit killing you (base difficulty) with a falmer bow even at max stats while you are wearing heavy armor is just flat out impossible so the enemies are seperate stat based and they scale which is still annoying and if you are like me you don't want to throw your points away into armor but if you want to survive you have to. Skill trees should never be punitive if you don't invest in them when your game is set up like Skyrim.

Some of the other skills are just underused like speech aside from the rare encounter you barely ever use it and its time to shine in the main quest with the certain mission (I'm sure you can figure which One I'm referring too) is just not used. In fact several quest lines where it could have been used (The Kill Paarthurnax one in particular) is just unacceptable. So Speech is pratically useless outside pricing and shopping.

Bears are way over stat buffed.

But I love this game and these flat out noob programing mistakes (many I have not listed) just make me sad.

WHAT?!

So let me get this straight.

You're having trouble with surviving hits, but the skill that helps you survive hits is a "waste"? Is that what you just said?

Excuse me, I can't stay here anymore. I'm going to go enjoy the F**K out of this game while you people attempt to out-stupid each other.