Another thing. Wby the heck did they take spell making out? If they thought it was broken, then they should have fixed. Ann don't give me that "it wouldn't work wigh the current magic system crap". It would. They were just too lazy so they cut it. Just like they cut an entire school of mysticicm and athletics and acrobatics.

Zenn3k, That was so unfair, but made me laugh so much. Good call.. off to play.

Nobody's been able to "please both sides" for the past 400,000 years.

Stealth gameplay is designed to be completely different from Combat gameplay: Why the heck is your "thief" smashing through dungeons anyway? He should be hanging out in the bedrooms of the upper classes, and finding work-arounds to taking out hostile forces during quests: poisons, traps, and backstabs for targets that absolutely must die, and sneaking past under the noses of those that would be "in the way" of other character builds. Dual-wielding swords is not a Thief gameplay tactic.

I agree that destruction is underpowered. I'm not sure how the lack of scaling slipped past the developers. But, the other schools are functional.

Also, I'm not seeing how enchanting and alchemy are "overpowered". Honestly, I can't even figure out how enchanting "works" (I can only get 1 or 2% effect from anything I try to enchant), and can't be bothered to mess around with alchemy to craft one-use bonuses I forget to apply anyway. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who can't figure them out.

The lockpicking perks are poorly designed, IMO: Instead of a perk for each lock difficulty branch, they should have made the first Lockpicking perk be one that increased the size of the "target area" for all locks over five tiers, so that four-out-of-five perks aren't absolutely useless. I kinda wish lockpicking was merged with Pickpocketing (The ability to loot bodies without even killing the target).


Oh FFS, they did not cut Mysticism: they simply merged the effects with Alteration, Conjuration, and Illusion.

I can tell you don't play RPGs let me explain this to you. When you are given a low number of skill points compared to the amount of skills then some skills no matter how problem solving they may be become useless in comparison to things you want and need for your player. I'm a mage player so armor skills take a back seat to magic based skills and smithing hence useless but still it is relative.

Second you should have a base line protection against damage from wearing equipment. Most skill trees level up like smithing does to allow you to wear the armor but because of the the game sets up to allow you to wear everything instead now no matter what level armor you wear it is near useless without investing in skills for those classes. I'm fully willing to accept not being able to survive heavy assaults but not being able to survive period is unacceptably bad balancing.

I didn't realize leveling skills was considered min/max'ing lol....


No, the point of min/max'ing is to use resources given to you in an optimal way. Whether that is overpowered or not is simply based on how well the different mechanics are balanced within the game.

No, I play archery, sneaking on expert. Nothing but archery at 68, my 1h skill is at like 20. I am at a point where I can not wait to get to 70 archery and get quick draw. I am not one of those FPS person who are use to no-scope 360, so when mobs are coming at me, it still takes me good concentration to line it up to make the arrows hit.

I am using a flawless elven bow and some pieces of elven armor and a guantlet I bought that increases bow dmg by 20%.

Have you invested in alteration spells/perks to protect you or did you think they were a waste too?

Which is why everyone in every destruction thread tells me to power level and exploit enchanting to stand a chance on Master.

Seriously speaking.

When I play a computer RPG I do not roleplay. I prefer to focus on character building, the challenges, and the quests. There are many threads in this forum stating that some roleplaying aspects of the game are not that great, and I don't even enter those threads simply because I don't care. So, I have to say I really don't understand why people that don't care with game mechanics and balance come here to bash this thread.

We don't see threads saying that the music in Skyrim can improve, just because it's already epic. So, if there are threads 'complaining' that the roleplaying aspects or game mechanics are not that great, probably there is some kind of truth there, and through those threads the respective areas can be improved with patches/mods.

My point is: Don't bash threads that are trying to enhance the game.

I find the basic armors to offer suitable protection for the investment you put into them.

I can tell you don't play any "hard-core" RPGs. If you do not invest in HP, armor, protection spells, or any other form of damage-taking ability, don't be surprised when you find yourself unable to survive. If you're playing a mage that doesn't take such perks, you're doing it wrong if you are ever in a position to actually take a lethal blow.

Heck, that could be said of any class: if you find yourself in a position that exposes you to a lethal blow, you're doing it wrong and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCXNRn9beI8.

Char-Op boards are laughing at your naivety. Especially their god, Pun-Pun.

Yea it's bad, def for me since I'm on 360. Todd even said that "you can play who you want" Really it isn't true (unless you want to be stupidly overpowered with not challenge or extremely gimped) many times I have to give myself boundaries for either being to overpowered or sometimes underpowered. Example is if I wanted to use enchanting as a warrior well I'm not going to because, it's insanely overpowered, smithing is as well. I can be fine with just smithing maybe, but I better avoid enchanting, because that turns my powerful warrior into a god. Stupid system not thought out at all. All you had to do is look at the tree to see how overpowered it is.

My biggest gripe is destruction. It was my fav skill, (I'm sure this is true with many others) sad thing is it doesn't scale AT ALL, why the heck would you make a RPG with a skill that doesn't scale?! So, once you have your strongest spell (which the Master spells cost insane amount of mana in first place) your done, your not going get any stronger in that skill. In the end your going to get weaker as you level, because enemies are going to get stronger. You should never feel this way in an RPG, you should be getting stronger! In the end only way you are going to make destruction somewhat reliable is exploit the freaking game! Sad thing is other damage dealing schools do a better job then what you get out of destruction for exploiting. All you had to do was make a 35+ character that uses destruction to see how bad it was, so your telling me they didn't do this?! The exploit requires you to force to get enchanting up, so there is another skill I NEED to get up.

For people who say melee svcks without enchanting, shut up! My melee guy doesn't use it and he's doing fine level 53 atm. I do have troubles here and there, but in the end it wasn't nearly as bad as destruction. It still shows destruction is a crappy made, thrown together tree. Even look at some of the perks it obvious from the description that they svck, enemies fleeing from fire spells when low on hp really? sounds more annoying then useful. Or lightning tree that gives you nothing, but just turns your target to ash. "facepalm"

Just my 2 septims

Why?. It makes no sense. With that logic, you should just combine all the schools of magic.

Some say enhance, some say destroy and that's where the conflict and passionate opinions comes in.

Well, if someone wants to complain just to destroy the game, then it's better just to play something else. I'm trying to use the forums to turn Skyrim from great to epic.

Well just my two cents...... i do roleplay.... sometimes heavily sometimes not depending on my mood.....but having these telepathyish magically ubar enhanced guards back wich can see you throuh everything is kind of annoying i dont want to spoiler but i used invis potion on myself with 1 point in the sneak skill while my sneak was somewhat around 25ish and a guard on the other side of the map (it was in the gardens of a house wich were relative big) could see/smell/hear me wich is kinda weird...

Its not just that, when you really play the game as it is intended to be played you actually stumble really fast upon some odd things wich some gamers just ignore but some dont and are upset about various choices made by bethesda where i cannot blame them at all just a fast reminder.... the oh so PC player friendly UI ... i just have to depend on the community wich hopefully is able to change it to a more PCish feel.... heck i cant even sort the inventory and have to friggin scroll trough all my crap in the chest( or whatever cointainer you used) .....

Same with a lot of unbalanced things.... ex: Dragon Armor (heavy) compared to Daedric.... my Dargon armor Legendary is at 98 and my Daedric is at 108... hmm 1 Skill point spent for Sheogorath amusemant =)

It's funny how people who argue that how the game works doesn't matter seem to think there are changes that can destroy it. If mechanics are so inconsequential how can a change that some people find important destroy the game?

You miss my point. Many people think the enhancements in threads are really ideas that reduce or destroy the core play. In other words, "enhancement" is subjective.

I do not know, I personally think it does matter how the game works. I also haven't seen too many people arguing this point, so why ask this question? In fact, I have yet to see one person argue that it does not matter how the game works. I've yet to see anyone argue hat game mechanics are inconsequential. Can you link a quote from someone? Or are implying that I have these feelings?

Oh really? Every time someone says "It's a single player game, so why does it matter if one character is more powerful than another" or "It's about the freedom to play however you like" or "The imbalance is only a problem if you play your game in a way that makes it a problem" what argument are they making?

They are trying to say that having the mechanics balanced better doesn't matter, so then why are they so vehemently against changes that would appease a lot of people if it doesn't matter anyways?

Oh, I see.

Anyway, I don't understand why people would think that. For example, the core play of Skyrim is exploration, roleplaying and freedom. I can argue that many perks in skill trees like lockpick and speech are pretty much useless in a game mechanic point of view, yet some players may still take it for roleplaying reasons. So, lets say I suggest Bethesda to enhance those perks, making them more useful and on par of combat perks. How can this impact in the exploration, roleplaying and freedom of the game? I really don't see how people can even consider this kind of enhancement bad for the game..

You are breaking the game intentionally and then you complain that it's unbalanced? wth...

That's the point. A balanced game is unbreakable, or at least very hard to break. For sure not broken right in the first days after release, and for many players without even trying to break it.

The thing I hate the most is that people think the difficulty slider is there so that people can adjust the game down if the character they want to play is too gimpy.

I wish that master difficulty would remove the option to bribe people for persuasion, set the buy gold for all vendors to 200-300 gold and no higher, and make it impossible to pick locks without having the perk for that lock. That would make it so that the difficulty is actually up across the board, and not just in combat and really warrants using lockpicking and persuasion.

The OP is right. On master difficulty there should be a challenge no matter how you develop your character. If your character becomes overpowered halfway through the game by the means the game provides there is something fundamentally wrong. God mode is for easy difficulty. On master there should be no god mode. The advice that people should restrict themselves to perserve the fun of a challenging gameplay even on master difficulty only acknowledges that there is a basic problem with game balance. It's like telling a shooter player: "If headshots make the game too easy only aim for the feet".

Yea, but people still refuse to acknowledge that the difficulty slider should regulate the difficulty of the game, not regulate the playability of the game in relation to the skills you picked.

On Master difficulty it should be much more difficult to do anything, not just defeat enemies, so that any skill becomes more valuable and needed.