pft.

Yes, I personally agree with you about the difficulty slider.

However, on being selfish, that's the whole point I'm trying to make. Of course I'm being selfish. Everyone in the thread is being selfish. They are putting forth their personal vision of what makes a good/fun game, based on the way their brain works and the way they see games and the way they have fun.

It's a bunch of BS for people to hide behind this facade that they know the 'right' way of making games and that they are somehow arguing from an 'objective' position. That's crap.

Everyone is selfish. Everyone will express what they want. That is totally fine. If a discussion is going to get anywhere we need some honesty.

You can give yourself weps that don damage in the thousands, and armour in the thousands. Great. Beth should add a dragon that does 50,000 damage with frost, and have 1,000,000 hp, just to give them a challenge.

Don't be absurd.



Nope. I don't use the "exploit". I have the choice to use it, but don't. That's my CHOICE!

All the time, I see the same repeat posters talking about having choices, options, wanting a challenge. Well you HAVE that choice. We all do. Head out into the world wearing nothing but an iron dagger strapped to your hip and a smile!

Anyone who complains about the game being unbalanced, but doesn't want to make those choices, well, that's nothing but a cop out.

It isn't absurd at all. You personally find it absurd, but that is your opinion. There have been plenty of games with incredibly hard bosses that people loved to death. Every play Final Fantasy 7? Ruby weapon was an insanely hard optional boss that the vast majority of players never beat. And FF7 is one of the most beloved games of all time.

So don't try to tell me really hard bosses are absurd. They are absurd to you, I accept that. But your opinion is not fact.

Oh trust me, I noticed it quite fast enough when my destruction mage started needing a full mana bar and 2 minutes to take out a single ennemy. Mind you the forums did make me scrap my orc, but thats because I hate having to -not- play to the best of my capacities. Its like... I want a challenge, not a handicap.

You know, it seems to me from reading this that your argument can be summed up as "You have the choice to restrict your choices!".

Isnt that kind of... ironic?

The problem is that you would be right if I needed to actually exploit some game mecanics, but I dont, all I have to do is select the crafting trees to spend my perk points into. Thats not "exploiting", thats normal use of normal game mecanics.

The answer, therefore, is not to "not exploit". Its to not use those options, ergo, to restrict your choices, which are what the game is supposed to be all about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(online_gaming)

You guys make extra rules for yourself when you play this game? Really? And you guys have played Morrowind and Oblivion right? Cause I seem to recall there is always one thing or another that is unbalanced in those games whether its Destruction, Alchemy, Sneak...whatever. I just don't get it but what I hope doesn't happen is that your complaints change the game for those of us that are enjoying it. If you don't like this or that then don't use it, make a mod that changes it instead of asking developers to make changes for you. I have problems with the game too, mine are more plot related, but I'm not going to ask anyone to change it for me...except maybe modders that know more about specific coding.

I agree. I want balance, and balance can be achieved without screwing things up for people already happy. But that takes a lot of effort.

Like I said in another thread, the only downside to balance is that it takes a lot more work (if you do it right).

Here is my question to you:

Say you like playing god mode dual wield. Why does it need to be in Master difficulty? Wouldn't a regular (non broken) build in novice mode play, literally, exactly the same? (all difficulty is in this game is mob hp/damage +-)

That being said i'm sick of the debate being reduced to the crafting loops. There are a lot of other bigger problems, like the mage situation. Its a thing to not have a challenge, its another to not be able to play an entire playstyle (nuker) because the game wont allow for it even on lower difficulties.

of all my friends that bought this game, i'm the only one who really participates in the online discussions. they all just play it - mages, thieves, warriors and hybrids alike are having a whale of a time and aren't even aware of things like cross-crafting exploits, endgame dps rates and the like. there are loads of fun quests and dungeons, they can kill the baddies, some fights take longer than others but they whoop and cheer all the more for it when they win

I freely use all the skills in the game that my character needs according to the role that I play. Whether I buff those up to max or not is my choice.



Playing the game with an underpowered character is one of the most fun choices to make. However, with any skill set you can think of, this game can be played, it just requires you to choose different tactics and strategy. A pure thief is one of the hardest ways to play the game. Also, one of the most thrilling. By pure thief, I mean you don't kill anyone. Try that sometime.

However, you missed my point even though you quoted my post. If you choose to make an over powered character, then that is your choice, if you choose to make an underpowered character, that is your choice. The game lets you do both. Or, something in the middle. It is all in how you play it.



Difficulty and skill choices are not the same thing. Increasing difficulty increases the amount of damage an enemy deals out and how much I deal out. It does not change how I deal the damage or protect myself. To use my above example of a Thief, it is more imperative that I sneak successfully when I am playing at a higher difficulty, but it does not change the fact that I have to Sneak to fit that play style. And, even under that scenario, I can choose to have a character that is not that skilled in sneaking if I want to. Kind of the Jerry Lewis of Thieves if you will.

When the OP said he can not handle the choices, that means I must limit my choices to fit his gaming style? Balderdash.

Yeah I just want to quote this...

Not trolling here... But people here defend imbalance saying, "hurrrrr what are you complaining about, you don't HAVE to enchant, fast travel, exploit, etcetera...

So I first need to read a manual on how to NOT make the game to easy?

It's like playing mario kart against the cpu and there are thousands of power-ups scattered on the road, which you have to carefully avoid or the game is to easy...
The "special people" here will just say: "HURRRR YOU CHOSE TO PICK THEM UP, SO YOU ARE COMPLAINING WHINER, HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"

Or tetris, where you only get 4x1 blocks... People here will say: "YOU CHOOSE TO LINE THEM UP PERFECTLY TO FINISH THE GAME IN A BREEZE HURRRRRRRRRRRRRR, YOU DON'T HAVE TO LINE THEM UP, URRR URRRR URRRRRRRRR"

Don't get me wrong, I'm liking this game, but the fact that I need a manual to avoid overpowering the character seems bad...

Already I don't understand why they spend so much time on a large amount of perfectly detailed foods when your health is automatically restored...

And auto restoring mana???? REALLY???

I love rpg's and I will take this game for what it is...

But in my opinion, it's extremely [censored] to perfectly texture and craft foods you don't even need to use because of regeneration... At least make mana and mana potions rare...

Really... Now that I'm thinking of it... Regeneration in mana is really an unforgivable blasphemy in rpg gaming... But the 12 year old herp a derps will defend the devolution of rpg's...

The dev's will pay karma for their money grabbing, and meanwhile I'm gonna enjoy the game.

I'm not talking about your standard "hard boss". I'm talking about you wanting to add a challenge into the game for those using the alchemy/enchanting loop.

To add a boss in to give a challenge to those who have armour and weapons that are, IIRC, able to be crafted to some 8,000% better than the standard weapons and armour without using "exploits", yes, that would be absurd.

lol, the poor casual gamers would be so confused by this boss

1) When did I say that?
2) When did I say that?

Who's choices am I limiting? Please, do tell me. Who exactly is a balanced game going to hurt. I keep seeing this thrown at me, but no one bothers to point out where it is exactly that I am trying to limit your choices?

No i mean, im 100% serious: I am begging you, or anyone, to explain to me how making each build of an equivalent power is limiting anyone's choices.

I get the feeling that the only answer I'll get is "because I want my god mode to be done in Master difficulty", but by all means, prove me wrong.

The current situation is what limits a lot of people's choices. And ironically, the only argument so far was "you can choose to restrict yourself!", which was my point to begin with: why are my choices limited by how hard I want the game to be instead of how I want to play my character?

I paid for the game and I used codes , uber weps, crafting, carry weight set to 4000. Played it on master and kicked it ass. Then played the game again with none of these. Had a just a good a laugh. I have played a 1 handed pala chracther, a ranger chracther, mage . I wasnt expecting the game to be uber in all departments, Coming from Morrowwind to Oblivion to Skyrim, And all have had the same results. Anyone remember Morrowwind being just as bad in its own way. Oblivion had probs too, So what if Skyrim has got probs too. Eventually they'll throw a few patches at it and the Mod community will take the game over. The point am getting at is when we go to a resturant and order a steak, we dont call the manager over and complain " where was my blwjob to go with my steak? " . To which the manager can reply u never ordered one. Back up ya files if u like the game as it is and save it, or wait for the patches / modders.

So if there was an unbalanced gun in Battlefield/Call of Duty, you'd simply tell people not to use it?
The option shouldn't be there in the first place.

Oh man, this is amazing.. LOL

But seriously speaking, your point is exactly as mine. How can you have fun trying to overcome a challenge when you are the one creating that challenge for yourself?


EDIT: Don't get me wrong. The game is great and there are many many ways to have fun. But making a strong build to overcome the enemies is really not one of the them. Which is the whole point of this thread I believe.

I see a lot of people's points and I figure I'll throw my 2 cents in:

-- Skyrim is a very good game. The way I'm playing I enjoy myself. I'm L41 and nowhere near as uber as many folks but I'm not playing on MASTER difficulty either.

-- You can build a superman and that's cool ... some folks like walking around & pwning everything. Good for them

-- You can gimp yourself if you'd like extra challenge. There are always folks that try to get by with less. Good for them

-- Some systems seem silly [to me .. YMMV] for no good reason. Getting the same XP for crafting an iron dagger or glass armor or a daedrik sword seems silly. Scaling XP based on cost / item tier / etc. would seem more reasonable to me

-- It should be harder to gimp yourself than it is currently. Whether this has to do with level scaling ; some spells / spell schools that don't seem to scale well ; etc. is up for debate. None of the characters that I have in mind should end up this way [yes I've played these games before] but I can see folks having some somwhat legit gripes.

Everyone would be. It'd be a boss that's built for armour and weps 80x greater than what's available "normally", ie without alchemy/enchanting loops.

lol wtf?

Doesn't sound like fun at all

I disagree with the OP, the game is perfectly balanced, I wouldn't change it at all.

The problem with your example isn't that there's an unbalanced weapon as standard, they have to be specifically made, by you, by looping potions and the enchanters table. It's a lot of work, and not something that's done by accident.