Bethseda Taking Lessons from Bioware

Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:12 am

I'm starting to wonder if Bethseda even cares about their series any more or the people whom have followed the series through its birth. I feel like Bethseda is giving up on their old market to appeal to the new market, much in the way Bioware did. I haven't bought a Bioware game since Dragon Age 2, which was an absolute let down. They through everything away, they threw away all their original fans for something more "awesome". I was absolutely disappointed and like many of the original fans of Dragon Age Origins, we talked on the forums about it. Only to get back lash from people who didn't like Origins, but love Dragon Age 2 or they didn't play Origins and love Dragon Age 2. We even got back lash from the company itself.

And I'm finding the same divide here. You have the people who their first Elder Scrolls game is Skyrim and they love Skyrim, you have all the original fans who are also divided some [like myself] feel the game is lackluster and we can see that it is appealing to a different fan and audience; you have some of the original fans who like the game, but feel it could have been polished more. And then you have other people who hated all the other Elder Scroll games except Skyrim and swear Skyrim is the better game.

I personally liked Morrowind, and I know the criticism that comes with Oblivion, but I also really loved Oblivion. And that isn't nostalgia talking. That was me legimately playing Oblivion up to Skyrim's release. I personally felt, Oblivion was the game that merged both a different audience and still catered to the original fans, imo. I am probably the only person who really likes Oblivion and doesn't think it was Bethseda decent into madness. I think Skyrim is where Bethseda is slowly decending into madness. I honestely feel like it caters to quantity over quality.

In Oblivion the choices were minor, but they still gave you free will. They still gave you the ability to roleplay as you like. In Shivering Isle you got to choose to help the Seducers or Saints, minor changes and an illusion of choice, but it still felt better than Skyrim's "One Path" logic. I have been on the fence about Skyrim. Anything to do with story or quest leaves me bored and unsasitified. Anything that has something to do with exploring actually gets exciting and I just like spending my time exploring. In Oblivion and in Morrowind I had equal time exploring and questing, there are always quest in Oblivion and Morrowind I will play over and over again because they left a lasting impression on me.

I want to try and think of a Skyrim quest that has left me an impression. That has lasted on me. But I can't think of any. They are so boring and so bland that it's like they just gave up on quest all together. I rarely find anything cooky, people you can't talk to. I feel the world is a lonely world, with no connection to the people around it.

And I wanted to believe that Dawnguard could have reawakened a sense of life into my gameplay. But I also found that contrived, following a one path logic. It's upsetting that all the quest of the Dawnguard are the same quest as the Vampire Lord. And worse is that people who give an argument to say Dawnguard is awesome, give out an argument of "Stuff" not "Quality". Bethseda just adds these ideas into the game, but never do anything with them. They don't do anything. And they add in such crap.

Gargoyles, made sense. I found them a nice addition. Snow Elves in the last part of the story, didn't make much sense, and I found it such a contrived plot device that I wanted to hurdle my controller through the television. But I'm a gentle soul, so I wouldn't be able to really do that. The Snow Elves could have been their own DLC. It feels like nothing was thought through. We have the quantity of stuff, without the quality of this stuff.

I feel like this was the conversation Bethseda had about Dawnguard

"Vampire Lords are cool and epic,"

"Ah hell yeah hey are, let's write about the vampire lords wanting to take out the sun,"

"Oh that sounds cool,"

"And we'll have vampire hunters,"

"That's awesome,"

"And they are fighting, against each other,"

"Yeah yeah keep going,"

"And so the Dawnguard are sneaking on the vampires, find out about their plans, and have to stop the Vampires from reaching the Elder Scrolls. And you could have epic battle of Vampire Lord bosses,"

"Ehhhh,"

"Eh?"

"I know, Snow Elves,"

"That's more like it,"

"Wtf, Snow Elves, ya gotta be kidding,"

"Vampire Snow Elves,"

"Even better,"

"And dragons,"

"Yeah,"

"Wait, what no guys, wtf...guys..wait"

"Oh and the underworld,"

I'm starting to believe Bethseda is taking a lesson from Bioware and that won't do them good in the long run. I stopped buying from Bioware after Dragon Age 2 and from what I hear from the Mass Effect fans about ME3, I was glad to not buy it. I have supported Bethseda for a long while with The Elder Scroll series, but if the series continues going downhill like this I'll take my business elsewhere. And their really isn't an elsewhere. The market no longer appeals for the people seeking elsewhere.

I was lead to believe Skyrim would be good and was let down. I wanted to believe Dawnguard could revive the series to yet again be let down. Where is the qualiy in the gaming experience? Dawnguard gave you more stuff, but it didn't give you quality. And I touch across this briefl, there should have been more player freedom and choice.

Again they did the Companions thing with the Vampire Lord, you have to be a vampire lord to finish the vampire story line. And really there should have been three major options:

-You refuse Harkon's gift, but convince him to let you aid him. He accepts becuase you saved Serana

-You accept Harkon's gift and begin your questing of the Vampire Lord

-You refuse his gift, threaten Harkon, try to harm him, he banishes you and claims you prey

And the quest line should have been different. I beat the Vampire side of the Dawnguard and it's like the Dawnguard problem just floated away. I was like, wtf. No the Dawnguard are the threat still, just cause Harkon is dead doesn't mean the Dawnguard are. Shouldn't we be attacking the Dawnguard? Shouldn't we...I mean wtf. And as a Dawnguard you shouldn't be stuck with Serana or doing what I thought was the Vampire quest line. Maybe if she comes, threaten her life, and she goes off and does the adventuring by herself. Leaving again three possible decisions in the end.

Quality. It's all I ask.
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Anna Watts
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:07 am

Uh-Oh...I sense a huge [censored]storm coming.
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Georgine Lee
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:06 am

Uh-Oh...I sense a huge [censored]storm coming.

this
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Sarah MacLeod
 
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Post » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:56 pm

Well i kinda agree with you. But dont say that original TES Fans have to hate skyrim :)
I love skyrim but
Morrowind>Daggerfall>Skyrim>Oblivion.
Havent played arena that much.
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Colton Idonthavealastna
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:02 pm

I agree with you about the forced choices in the game overall, there was too little choices. This made no sense to me since it would only take a single dialogue option to open up a whole other ton of gameplay.

Like you said, opting to help the vampires withuot becoming a vampire. Opting to help the companions without becoming a werewolf. Opting to finish the thief questline without selling your soul to nocturnal. Opting to complete the main story without being forced into the College and Thieves guild. All of these things could have been options, but a lot of people chose to avoid gameplay because it imposed choices on them that they did not want. This seems like a failure to me, although I'm sure someone will tell me to man up or call me an obsessive compulsive control freak (which I freely admit)
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Ladymorphine
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:01 am

And the quest line should have been different. I beat the Vampire side of the Dawnguard and it's like the Dawnguard problem just floated away. I was like, wtf. No the Dawnguard are the threat still, just cause Harkon is dead doesn't mean the Dawnguard are. Shouldn't we be attacking the Dawnguard? Shouldn't we...I mean wtf.

Try the side quests? They leet you destroy the Dawnguard eventually xD.
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KIng James
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:45 am

Taking lessons from the old bioware? Yes, current one?

[censored] NO

Casey has dethroned Todd as the worlds biggest lier.
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Becky Cox
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:09 am

Honestly, Oblivion was my first Elder Scrolls game and I absolutely LOVED it, I had 100s of hours each on my three main characters. This was on a console, so I didn't have mods to play around with either. When I did get Oblivion for PC I loved it even more, I even started modding it myself a little bit. It was pure fun. Imo, Skyrim was an improvement though. I don't understand the backlash, I kind of think It's silly. It reminds me of the hipsters who don't like a band once their mainstream friends start to get into it. I don't see what Skyrim lost?
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Lisa Robb
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:01 am

Try the side quests? They leet you destroy the Dawnguard eventually xD.

But I thought that was the Main Quest. That the Vampires and taking over the sun was more of the complex entirity of the story. That as the Dawnguard are seeking to destroy the vampires, they discover to late that they have two Elder Scrolls, and they hear of the prophecy of the sun. Now it's a race against time. And instead of fighting flippin dragons or snow elves, you're actually fighting Vampires. That shouldn't have been a side quest, destroying the Dawnguard shouldn't have been the side quest. Watch the trailer, they make it sound like Vampires and Dawnguards are the main storyline. The Vampire's plot is only part of the complexity of the story. But no they just put stuff in there to visually distract you.

Well i kinda agree with you. But dont say that original TES Fans have to hate skyrim :smile:
I love skyrim but
Morrowind>Daggerfall>Skyrim>Oblivion.
Havent played arena that much.

I don't want all the original TES Fans to hate Skyrim. I just feel that most believe this game could have been more Polished.

Morrowind>Oblivion>Daggerfall>Skyrim

lol
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Heather M
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:28 am

Taking lessons from the old bioware? Yes, current one?

[censored] NO

Casey has dethroned Todd as the worlds biggest lier.

This. And I actually really like Todd.

I've played TES from Arena to Skyrim. I love them all. I think Skyrim is a wonderful medium ground between Morrowind and Oblivion, but yes, there is always room for improvement.
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danni Marchant
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:04 pm


I don't want all the original TES Fans to hate Skyrim. I just feel that most believe this game could have been more Polished.

Morrowind>Oblivion>Daggerfall>Skyrim

lol
Hehe,Yes it could,Like every game,it could have been better. Just my opinion :) Like oblivion,It has it flaws,But i still liked it,But i like skyrim more. But it doesnt mean i hate oblivion,I have so many great memories from that game
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Claudz
 
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Post » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:57 pm

I understand how you can think this about Dawnguard...and skyrim in general. i Feel that skyrim needed about 3-4 more months of development before is should've been released. and Dawnguard at least for me has be relatively glitch free. The way i see it is more of an evolution of TES series from more of a true RPG with(imo) bland gameplay like in Morrowind to Skyrim which has some RPG elements but also much better gameplay. I do agree that the choices in skyrim were almost non-existent and i would've loved to see more options, but skyrim is still a great game and bethesda is most certainly not taking lessons from that dreaded developer BioWare.

Skyrim=Morrowind>oblivion>daggerfall
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Anna Watts
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:33 am

You hear complaints about the last 15-20 minutes of Mass Effect 3, and you hear praise for the other 60 hours of the game. People really need to grow up.
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Crystal Clarke
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:07 am

You hear complaints about the last 15-20 minutes of Mass Effect 3, and you hear praise for the other 60 hours of the game. People really need to grow up.

for me it wasn't even the mass effect 3 ending fiasco that made me really hate bioware...it was dragon age 2. That game was an abomination and if i had a say in it, it would have never been released.
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Eric Hayes
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:47 am

for me it wasn't even the mass effect 3 ending fiasco that made me really hate bioware...it was dragon age 2. That game was an abomination and if i had a say in it, it would have never been released.

I have to agree with you on that. Dragon Age 2 is an abomination. And it should have been aborted before it was ever made.
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Rachael Williams
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:17 am

Uh-Oh...I sense a huge [censored]storm coming.
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Elizabeth Davis
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:14 am

for me it wasn't even the mass effect 3 ending fiasco that made me really hate bioware...it was dragon age 2. That game was an abomination and if i had a say in it, it would have never been released.

I'm just defending Mass Effect 3. The only bad thing about it was the ending and I refuse to have people throw it into a list of how Bioware has screwed something up on any other basis than that.
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Sophie Morrell
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:25 pm

Try the side quests? They leet you destroy the Dawnguard eventually xD.
That 'radiant quest' was a joke.
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Trey Johnson
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:16 pm

Maybe it's just me but I've never thought of the Elderscrolls games as great story games. For me they've always been amazing games but not for the story but for the world they built. Don't get me wrong I would love a better story for future ES games. I think what Bethesda needs is another developer making games similar to ES games. Someone to compete with so they have keep raising they're standards.

Skyrim > Oblivion > Morrowind
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Ella Loapaga
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:14 am

Maybe it's just me but I've never thought of the Elderscrolls games as great story games. For me they've always been amazing games but not for the story but for the world they built. Don't get me wrong I would love a better story for future ES games. I think what Bethesda needs is another developer making games similar to ES games. Someone to compete with so they have keep raising they're standards.

Skyrim > Oblivion > Morrowind

They don't always have strong stories, but there are some parts of each game with a rarity. Though I found Oblivion's much more classy,imo.
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Bedford White
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:10 am

Please experience the DLC fully. Side quests, radiant quests, and BOTH sides of the MQ. Then complain about Bethesda failing.
Dawnguard was not meant to upstage Shivering Isles. If it was, it would have had a $35 price tag.
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Matt Gammond
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:36 am

Please experience the DLC fully. Side quests, radiant quests, and BOTH sides of the MQ. Then complain about Bethesda failing.
Dawnguard was not meant to upstage Shivering Isles. If it was, it would have had a $35 price tag.
Exactly. This is "the Knights of the Nine" expansion, not the Shivering Isles.
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lydia nekongo
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:08 pm

Exactly. This is "the Knights of the Nine" expansion, not the Shivering Isles.

Well said... This ^^

I must admit I came in to the elder scrolls franchise when oblivion was released but I must admit oblivion has never lit my fire in gaming (so to speak). Skyrim on the other hand is an epic adventure, I don't think people realise the amount of effort bethesda put into this game and it shows with both the quality of the vanilla game and with the dawnguard DLC and their promise to release future content for this game!...

Personally I'd hate for Bethesda to go the same way as bioware and sell their souls to the likes of EA and charge for every single DLC no matter how small...

People should thank Beth for releasing new content free of charge in patches... Something very few developers have done... and as for dawnguard, it's the first expansion to a truly epic game and I look forward to much, much more!!! :)
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Melly Angelic
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:18 am

Please experience the DLC fully. Side quests, radiant quests, and BOTH sides of the MQ. Then complain about Bethesda failing.
Dawnguard was not meant to upstage Shivering Isles. If it was, it would have had a $35 price tag.

Even if it wasn't. It still should have been written quality work. It has nothing to do with the upstaging of Shivering Isle, it has to do with the way things were written.
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TASTY TRACY
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:58 pm

That's one of the major issues I have with bethesda's games. They have a large world, but its obviously designed more like a themepark than an actual location. The NPCs don't come off as really unique individuals, so much as coming off like actors who walk about, and instantly turn to robotically acknowledge you when you get within 5 feet of them because that is what they are for. Quests cannot be failed, nor can they be autocompleted by other NPCs or events dealing with the job before we can.

It just feels so static and unchanging...to the point where there isnt even a good reason to replay it because nothing changes. It lacks a certain sense of authenticity, by making it so blatantly obvious that the entire world utterly revolves around our character, yet at the same time the lack of branching paths and alternate choices/outcomes in quests makes it obvious our character is just along for the ride.
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carla
 
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