If people are taking about Bethseda dumbing down games. And using DA2 and Bioware as the example to compare. I'll like to know what you are drinking. (Could be wrong, but this is what some post sounds like).

What happened with DA2 was horrible. But, in no way is Skyrim that to TES.

Skyrim is different. As each game is different. Companies are trying out new ways to improve things in their games. I remember in Morrowind hating to have like shoulder pads, arms, and gloves parts to getting a full set of armor. Its tedious.

I love Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim for what each one does right. And they all do things right. But, even the old games did stuff bad. Your memories cloud that.

Skyrim is not dumbed now, and nothing compared to DA2.

I will never forget the crazy [censored] town of Hackdirt. The first time I did that quest I was just like "........what?........"


Both games I would say, are pretty equal in regards to side quests. They both have good, boring, and very memorable side quests.

Ha, lolz. Thats funny. The ending SERIOUSLY pissed me off. Not because it was "sad" but because it was poorly executed and wasnt explained well. They fixed it though. Didnt change anything, but explained everything which is a worthy compromise to maintain the rights of the artist. And it was a big free download.

> better combat system

anyway


The Dark brotherhood questline in oblivion wasn't that good, it was pretty much the CoC killing off nearly all but one person in the dark brotherhood of cyrodiil and that one person has no real personality nor does she connect with the CoC, thieves guild was pretty decent but the writing was ok but not great as where the Skyrim one had the guild actually looking like a guild and setting up contacts and power where oblivion was "hey you're the grey fox now have a mask that takes away all challenge from getting a bounty and pretty much means you no longer have to worry about jail." and then a mysterious door appears out of nowhere and you get a joke of a guild hall whereas the ragged flagon actually seems like a real guild area complete with a secret back room.

Or how in the Thieves Guild you spend more time killing in Skyrim then you do actually sneaking and being like thief. Even though they are roughly the same, the Oblivion one was far better. Or hwo about the Dark Brotherhood, in SKyrim, they are all bland, run into place, stab guy, leave. Except maybe the one with the Wedding in Solitude, that was good. But in Oblivion for example, they were, even though they were short/the same length, they were memorable and fun. Like the one in Bruma, were you had to sneak into the man's house, and kill him by dropping the trphy on him, and then escape undetected. Or where you faked a man's death, and then helped him sneak out of the crypt when eh was buried. I've done the Dark Brotherhood 3 times in Skyrim, it's fun and the game is too, but there are few quests, that are unique, memorable or more than simple go somewhere, kill something, get money.

But... there weren't boots of Springheel Jack in Skyrim. >_< (Jk)

Dude. You get to kill the emperor. The [censored] emperor.

It si far superior to the Dark Brotherhood questline in Skyrim, that is all I have to say. Same with the Thieves Giuld in Oblivion. In Skyrim's Thieves Guild, you act more like an Assassin, the entire point is to sell your soul and defeat a baddie, not actually do Thief like things.

Agreed. Skyrims guilds were way better, and that theives guild "hall" made me cry.
Here's the Theives guild hall! What do you think? Its a frikkin table with like 5 lockpicks.....

This. I'm pretty sure THIS is a very memorable event.

I'm going to use another game that I feel does better than Skyrim in quest areas. To me quest markers are dumb. I think it's ridiculous you can't toggle just the quest markers off. In Witcher 2 they give you a quest marker to the cave you're suppose to go and then the quest marker disappears. You roam around a cave, and look for what you're looking for. You get lost, you get confused. In Skyrim you get a quest marker to the location, and the quest marker stays, oh and the quest marker is on top of the item you need or on top of the chest or the wall. How can you not consider that dumb down? Like the people playing the game can't read items? Like the people playing the game cannot figure something out on their own?

I'm going to use another game that I feel does better than Skyrim in customization. Dragon's Dogma. It may not have a good story, but the customization is good. I can make a child, I can make a teenager, an old person. In Skyrim everyone has [censored] wrinkles, everyone looks about forty years old in the customization. Can't change body, can't change height. All the elves look the same. I want the age slider back, I also want the hair slider back to make my hair short or as long as I want, I want the hair color slider back to make a brown look a little more redish or some other color. What Dragon's Dogma does right is they give you presets, but those presets you can customize them with more complex systems. What Skyrim does give you presets and some minor tweaks. I wouldn't consider that dumb down, but I do consider it annoying.

As a stormcloak, this made me very happy in pants...

Yeah that's cool and all, but how do you go about it? Hmmm. Well you don't sneak onto a ship, and kill him in some way that actually makes sense. You kill dozens of guards and just waltz on to the ship and he just lets you stab him. I'm not saying the quest's are bad, or the guilds bad. Im saying the execution or things is bad in comparison to Oblivion. Nothing is memorable ro unique.

It's hardly memorable because it wasn't "executed" properly. It was like any dungeon I go into to get loot.

I dunno what your talking about, but I didn't kill anyone other than him.

I love Witcher 2, but the map and marker system on that game gave me a headache. You know how many videos there r on youtube about how to get to different locations? Way more then there should. Getting lost and confused should NEVER be in a game on purpose. There's a big difference between a game not having a lot of hand holding, and just plain dropping the ball on navigation.

You did it wrong, you ARE suppose to sneak onto the ship, if you go just kill everyone then theres no fun or challenge. The only reason you didn't do that in oblivion was because you got a bonus for only killing the captain and it was very much executed properly. ._.

I sneaked past everyone on my first playthrough. Was very DB to me. Great moment in my book.

the funny hing about this thread and dont get me wrong I loved oblivion but people are acting like oblivion had a deep story line when it didnt compared to morrowind im actually almost positive that the community is going to be saying the same about TES 6 if it comes out

This is a fair point, I did find it odd that the emporer had such a small amount of protection that one man can go and kill him. Also there was no logical explanation as to why the ship was still there. If there was something like, before astrid died, to ensure that she could still carry out the contract, she had the katariah tampered with or some other reason why you could leave a month between finding out the emporer's location and actually gerring on the ship and have the ship in the same place

Killing the emeperor was the only memorable thing in Skyrim's dark brotherhood. And even that was poorly executed. What were you playing the game on? Cause there were to many dudes to sneak around and it was so damn bright in the boat.

Oblivion had several, the Who Dun It quest was simply amazing, the Bruma kill to make it look like an accident, sneaking into the fort to exchange the medicine with poison.

Oblivion, "We are not murders. We are artisans of death." is the feel I got from the Brotherhood.

Skyrim, "Just stab some people and call ourselves assassins," is the feel I got from the Skyrim of Brotherhood.

Also, Oblivion never gave me a reward than pure frikkin gold. Plain and simple 20,000 septims baby! Finally a mission where I'm paid what I deserve for doing something so grand.

THEY EXPLAINED IN GAME WHY THE GUARDS WERE SO RELAXED pay attention to dialogue.

The ONLY memorable thing? Really? The Chef thing wasnt memorable? Or the wedding? Or Cicero, and tracking him down? All of this, including the characters (looking at you Babette ) made it unique and memorable.
Also, game difficulty doesnt effect sneak....

Finding the item after being lost is the reward. I have went through this place and this place, omg where is this. Rage quit, maybe. Come back because you want to find it. See a path you didn't know about, find the item and feel a sense of achievement.

The quest marker in Skyrim is like the Zelda Fairy. It's there always to annoy you, and you have no sense of accomplishment. I have never in Witcher 2 had to go on the internet to find an item. I just search around. Get a little mad, but glad I toughed it out and find the item. It's not a headache, it's fun. It's a sense of journey, exploration, and accomplishment.