I purchased the game as is. I play on PC because of access to tools like this, which is the case for MANY PC gamers. Dice it apart any way you want. Many people make heavy use of the console in Bethesda games, and always have. I get your point, but I purchased the game with full knowledge of the fact that I would have access to a debugging console. The only thing they're accomplishing by disabling the console is making me not want to play on survival because their game is full of freakin bugs.

How exactly is it cheating to use the console to get unstuck from a map texture? Am I cheating when a companion mysteriously disappears and can't be found anywhere, and I use the console to bring them back? Am I cheating when I toggle the free camera to get great screenshots?

'Cheating' has literally nothing at all to do with this. Most people playing on survival are doing it because of the challenge. If you don't want a really tough challenge, odds are you aren't even going to play on survival in the first place. I have no desire to use the console to exploit my way through the challenge that I willingly decided to take on. I simply want it to work around the countless bugs that I've encountered with this game.

Oh and to answer your initial question, maybe two or three? If we were basing this on thread count, we'd have had multiplayer, slavery, all NPC's killable, drivable cars, and many more.

Are you trying to suggest that there have only been a handful of console players complaining about these glitches being removed? There may have only been 2-3 threads about it...but that's because the admins here are good about deleting threads for topics that are already going in another thread. Some of those threads got closed and remade because of reaching the post limit. I've seen countless posts in Facebook groups from console gamers complaining about how these glitches being patched was unfair since PC gamers have access to the console.

Admittedly, I do play on PS4 and I've done just fine without ever having to use the console, with the exception that it'd be nice for debugging once in a while. This is a tough one to vote on; I mostly voted 4 for chuckles but there is a part of me that's thinking "Welcome to my world." However this might hurt the youtubers and the modders which might not be a good business decision.

lol...That's very understandable. I put the fourth option there as a bit of a joke, but I think it's still a necessary option here. Many console gamers are of the opinion that debugging consoles should be disabled completely for PC gamers, because they feel that it gives them an unfair advantage. I put that option there in hopes that it would function as a bit of a 'control option' to keep those opinions separate from the console gamers who simply think it should be disabled for survival mode.

From what I understand, its not just during beta. They are planning on leaving that in even when the beta goes live. They called it a 'feature' on their other forum.

I guarantee that 90% of the people saying they've "never had issues" actually have, and just forget because they were either able to fast travel away to get unstuck or resummon a missing NPC, or they could save often enough to just reload. The people saying we "want to cheat" are laughably off the mark. If you *really* haven't gotten stuck, good for you. My usual fix is a quick TCL; my brother on PS4 uses a fast travel. Removing the console, coupled with all the other features of Survival mode, will turn glitches from minor inconveniences to reload events potentially losing hours of progress. Finally got through a tough-as-nails encounter after 10 tries, only to get stuck on a texture when you exit or get stuck in the terminal you read (or any other glitch)? Too bad!

Survival should be extremely unforgiving of player errors. Taking away the means to fix issues *other* than player error is foolhardy.

Very well said. I really don't get why so many people automatically jump to the conclusion that we all want console commands to exploit our way through the game. I don't want it for that. I absolutely want to be thoroughly challenged by survival mode. That's why I've been looking forward to it with MUCH anticipation ever since it was announced. I was more excited about this than I was about any of the DLC (and I've definitely been quite excited about that as well), and I feel like Bethesda just killed it. They removed the tool that I've been using to get through buggy Bethesda games for like 15 years.

I was incredibly salty when I first saw this. I've decided to stop being salty about it and play it anyway, but this needs to be changed. I'll mod it in as soon as I can if it's not changed by Bethesda, but this was really just a bad move that never should have been made in the first place.

"Emogene takes a lover" has been bugged for me on every playthrough. the only way I've been able to complete it is with console commands. Sure that's just me, but that's just one example there are many out there.

Really wish they wouldn't disable the console, many of us have no interest in cheating. Very disappointed in Bethesda for this.

FYI.

There's a claim over on the Steam forums for Fallout 4 that someone's found a way to get the console back.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/377160/discussions/0/392185054116894556/#p4

It's post #58

Here's the proposed fix:

Edit Fallout4Custom.ini
Add:
[General]
bAllowConsole=1


I don't know if this works, but if it does, it immediately fixes the issue for the moment and renders the decision to turn off the console MOOT. If it can be fixed by players who what to get it back, then there's no reason to take the damned thing away anymore.

Oh the irony.

That's such an obscure way to get the console back though, I don't know if many players will take the time to go through all that... oh wait.

Seriously though, if this actually works the decision to make the console unavailable is laughable at best.

https://youtu.be/iloMr7SvvK8?t=2133

I believe console should be enabled for Survival mode merely because some modders might want to make a survival only mod(a mod that's balanced in survival mode) and the only way to debug some things while in-game is to open the console and use the console commands.

I dont mind the console being disabled for survival mode however that will limit the mods that are balanced on survival mode.

There are some mods that are balanced on Master or Legendary difficulty of Skyrim, I believe some modders might want to do the same on the Survival difficulty of Fallout 4.

That's honestly the only reason i can think of having the console enabled in survival mode aside from debugging a quest that's bugged or something going wrong with the game. No matter what people believe, the console can give you quite alot of valuable information of what's going on in the game,what quest stage you are on(in the case of a quest being stuck no matter what).

I believe alot of modders want to make some mods that are balanced around Survival Mode only, so keeping the console disabled will limit this.

It really does amaze me how many people want to cheat on a mode that is meant for hardcoe players... why even play a such a mode if you want to just cheat and make the game easy?

I suppose I can understand why mods and console is disabled at the moment, with it only being a beta and all. But I don't see the reason for it to be disabled when it officially releases into the game. Even more so, I don't understand why so many people are against it. If you don't want to use the console while playing Survival, don't use it. If you don't want mods, don't use them. It's that simple. Who cares how someone else is playing the game if it isn't affecting you in the slightest?

More options for everyone, more ways for people to play their game their own way. If that's how Bethesda wants it to be designed, fair enough. It's their game. But for the player base to be against it? And especially in such a ridiculous manner? I don't see the reason behind it.

You moan at us for complaining about the duplication being fixed.

I say haha no more console commands for you

So, ignorant of the fact that people have pointed out why they use the console? Too free the character when they get stuck in the geometry. To get around a glitched quest or to undo any glitch.

Let me guess, you're on console and thus don't even have access to it?

edit: What I have noticed is that almost all the whining, demanding and insults have come from the 'pro' side.

Just since the Mechanist DLC I've had two separate instances where the last raider or robot in an attack on one of my settlements somehow ended up stuck inside a wall or piece of terrain, making it pretty much impossible to complete the event. Luckily I could just use tcl to go in there and kill them to get on with my life, no big deal. But I guess in survival mode I would get the hardcoe and REALISTIC experience of everyone in Greentop Nursery running around shouting "Someone do something!" about an angry rock throwing taunts and threats at them, and I'd eventually just lose a bunch of resources by failing the quest to protect them. IMMERSION!

Honestly even if people want to cheat wantonly in survival mode, who even cares? It's a single player game, there is no competition or anything to be gained by being "good" at it. I really couldn't care less if people are taking advantage of the console or duplication glitches.

If it's disabled for the beta only I understand why they might want to do it that way and it's fine.

I don't understand what compelling purpose it would serve to leave it permanently disabled. Disabling the dev console will only restrict PC players/mod authors who use the console for lots of valid reasons and who, if they want to change survival mode, will be able to do so with mods anyway. Mods which will find their way to consoles.

Cheat?

...you are being ignorant of everything else aside from cheating I guess...

Most of us use the console to test things out, to free our character when they get stuck somewhere , to fix a glitched quest or undo a glitch.

I only use the console in order to fix a glitched quest or free my character when she get's stuck(Yes even if you reload a save there is still an equal chance that you will get stuck again, that's where the console comes into play).

No I'm pointing out that if Bethesda implemented features and changes based on thread count we'd have a very different game than we have now. To even suggest that this move was influenced by console players is baseless and pathetic

Without taking this the wrong way, how often does that really happen to you? I've never used TCL in my PC NV playthroughs and never had an issue in 3/NV/4 on consoles. The way some of you talk about it, it's like a daily occurance.

I was never interested in survival so it won't affect me,but how do console users think mods are made? Do they understand console commands are needed for modders? If you are happy with no console commands in survival then don't come complaining about the lack of survival mods in the future.

Depends how lucky/unlucky you are.

I've not got stuck once since release, then all of a sudden in the last week I've had to use TCL at least half a dozen times to free my character after they got stuck in the geometry.