I am not at max destruction yet, but here is my 2 cents...Expert Level Destro spells do roughly 90 damage (with 2 points in the +damage talent) per cast, one handed. Factor in that if you dual cast it, it does WAY more damage, and yeah...It takes about the same amount of time to charge the spell as it does to swing a non-power attack...I am sure with enchants and poisons you can get your 2h mace up to 90 points per swing, but that is using 2 other skill trees (both of which probably need some serious talent points to get to the 90 damage mark). And there are poisons that make mobs have a weakness to magic/fire/etc, which, if I am not mistaken, can cause them to enter negative resistance and BAM, even more damage.

Finally, the big thing we are missing here is this is only the Expert level spells. The Master level spells do all that damage PLUS they are AOE. Sure, you probably can't cast it more than 2-3 times before your OOM, but WHO CARES?!? 2-3 casts of 180+ damage over an area = everything is very very dead. At least on normal. At higher difficulties, you might have a harder time...oh...wait...you made it harder...and now you're having a harder time...WOW...amazing...

Stop complaining about mechanics. Wait till they get some bugs fixed (or more likely modders beat them to it LOL), and THEN worry about mechanics.

People are silly...

Quick Edit: Before someone posts that casters have to wait for mana to regen for long fights/large fights, and this further puts them behind weapon users, let me point out that stamina depletes MUCH faster than mana, and that there are a TON of enchants to DRASTICALLY improve mana regen...I think I'm sitting at like 250% increased regen at 31 before I throw down the potions...

No, that's just affecting mana cost.

There are 3 trees in destruction for adding damage to elemental magic that can be taken on the side.

let me train explain to you somehow ... more simple :

NOTHING IN THIS GAMES ADDS DMG TO SPELLS , not ench no items NOTHING that is THE problem

That's kinda offset by the fact that a mage can have 2 frost atronarchs out while shielding himself, healing himself, lobbing fireballs and making the enemies fight each other. Melee gets the best pure damage because when melee focused damage is all you have.

No, for two reasons:

1) Each mastery level spell has its own effect. Novice Destruction spells are spray spells that last as long as you hold the button, and are short-mid range. Master ones are area of effect only. There is no Master level spray spell, just as there is no Novice-level AoE spell. For that reason, if you level up your Destruction skill, you're forced, eventually, to use AoE spells only, because the other types (generalising a bit here) are too weak to be effective.

2) Master spells have far worse damage:magicka cost ratios. They cost far more magicka, and do proportionately less damage.

I hate you all. If this were an MMO I'd spend all day ganking all of you...or atleast trying, but I wouldn't be able to because Destruction is broken!

What this forum needs is an Accountancy room where all the number crunchers can compare statistics all day while the rest of us gamers enjoy playing Skyrim.

I think people are confused. I have read before that skill e.g. 1 - 100 has no effect on your stats. Only perks affect your stats. If that is true, then you cannot expect your damage output from destruction to increase simply because your skill has increased.

That makes sense, thank you for the explanation.

No, but you can increase your magicka. Which means more spell casting time, which results in more damage.
If you're trying to go toe to toe, then you fail outright at life.

Nobody gains three times the health and defense in this game. They don't scale like that. This isn't Oblivion. I kill some enemies at level 30 with attacks that only do about 75 damage. Assuming the +50 isn't listed on the spelltip. If it is, lots of enemies have barely 50.
In 20 levels you should move from using two hands of flames to impact dual-casted firebolts with +50%. Or opening with fireballs.


Is this what the problem is? People who are going around still using flames and frostbite at the later levels?

Yeah, those poor melee with 1200 AR and two to three times as much health as the caster. What ever will they do? Here's also a pretty huge hint: when enemies die faster, you take less damage. Melee can also use the whirlwind shout if they really need to get to something far away quickly.


The problem is when people like you only focus on the most basic enemies that die with a single sword attack and make absurd claims that enemies don't scale or that everything is fine. Hate to break it to you, but YES, many of the enemies DO SCALE like they did in Oblivion. There are fixed levels for some areas and scaling for others. Try again.

And where are you getting this +50% nonsense? Dual Casted spells only gain around a 10% - 15% increase in damage, but cost 40% more.

That might be right....but that doesnt mean that more powerful versions of the creatures don't appear.....you could get very pwoerful in magic and kill everything for the first 25 levels.....but then what? you cap out on damage completely, and the enemies are still improving....melee can still improve from that point....you have to start finding more workaround and using mage-stealth or mage-warrior hybrids in order to succeed.

Not in the same way as Oblivion, but there are several areas with high-level enemies. They will be problematic at high level when your Destruction damage has capped out.

That is not true.

I know I have seen items which buff destruction damage.

i have magicka and that damn magicka regen , but using 7 double charge fireballs to kill 1 enemy is stupid while there are 4 5 and they need 2 3 to kill you

Meh, full upgraded Daedric armor enchanted with -100% mana cost wielding 2 fireballs = unstoppable mage. However, at level 51 on mine the damage is nowhere near the output of a dual wield warrior and the master spells are a complete waste to use due to the build up times of them.

We also lost our "Weakness to" spells so far as I can tell. Melee still get to apply those effects with weapons, but mages can't cast them.

The cause of all this is likely a mix between the spell system needing tweaks(a little scaling or whatnot) and people not being able to get over the fact that they can no longer create a spell that does a billion damage and gives them infinite magicka(or at least that's all spellcrafting did for me in Oblivion).

show it , give a damn link to any wiki of skyrim with such item , any item ?! Cos then we can DISENCHANT IT , and ENCHANT oure ITEMS with dmg THATS WHAT we were asking OR spell making OR it scale with destruction skills .

Show such item you LIAR , and stop inventing stuff you have no damn clue about ! you know nothing , and you havent seen anything its just you make up stuff

I chose my words poorly. I do understand how Skyrim's level scaling works. What I should have said was "come back in 20 levels when you try fighting enemies set at higher levels, and you discover that your Destruction damage is still the same."

And no, obviously people are not using Flames and Frostbite at 100 Destruction.

There are just TOO MANY points I can make that say mages overall are underpowered compared to warriors that I can write a book on it. Here are just a few

1. Destruction never gets stronger.

2. Mage spells are either too weak or cost too much mana to sustain in a fight.

3. Mage runs out of mana, has to run. Warrior runs out of stamina, continues to pound heavy damage.

4. Mages do less damage than warriors AND are 10-100x less durable in battle.

5. Master level destruction spells take 5 seconds to cast, cost too much mana, and don't get stronger after you get them at level 50 while monsters get stronger.

6. Warrior late game can have insanely strong legendary armor and weapons that do 500 damage per regular swing without power swing and tank like a god, mages have the 100 damage master spell that takes 5 seconds to cast when they are vulnerable.

7. Warriors can faceroll through the game with 2 skills and two hack buttons. Mages need to constantly switch spells, run around, drink potions, use shouts, use lydia, ect just to get by.

8. Robes with magic regen/cost reduction is nowhere near as good as the armor that makes warriors unstoppable late game.

9. Warriors with heavy armor and weapons can whip out their flame spell anytime and do as much damage as a mage while able to tank so much more, mages who want to fight with swords end up getting [censored].

10. I have yet to find a pure mage at any level able to complete the main quest line, I see warriors level 20ish complete it easily.

11. A TON of people complain about destruction being underpowered and mages in general compared to warriors. No one complains about warriors be underpowered, only overpowered.

12. This is a TES game. Players should be able to play how they want. If they want to focus on destruction without much help in other magic fields they should be able to do that. Game favors warriors heavily to faceroll through the game. Destruction is probably the most important school magic yet it is one of the more useless and full mages can't seem to do well with it without resorting to conjuration.

13. Full mages have to switch between 3-5 spells, conjure creatures, bring lydia, drink pots, hide behind obstacles shooting down enemies, scout the enemies well, before EVERY battle. It's fun on the first few battles but throughout the thousands of battles it becomes tedious and worthless. Warriors just charge into 10 men mobs without thinking and faceroll everything.

14. In even decently balanced games, warriors can always tank more damage while mages do much more damage and can nuke from afar. Mage destruction spells are mid-close range spells and can't nuke while warriors do more damage. In league of legends we see spell casters like ryze who die instantly and move slowly but can nuke so well and does more damage than tanks like malphite who are very hard to kill but barely do any damage. Imagine if malphite did more nuke damage than ryze. Who in their right mind would want to play ryze then? Everyone would want to play malphite. Same thing is going on here. People play the more balanced characters and like to play by what is better. This is an elder scrolls game and people should be able to play how they like but instead are forced to be melee or struggle through as a mage.

im a destruction mage but also use a one handed sword with a frost enchantment

Any realistic character is going to use whatever skills he needs to to survive in his world, regardless of where his areas of expertise are. There is no way I would set out into Skyrim knowing JUST destruction magic or JUST two-handed weaponry, though... not if I expect to live long.

Sorry if I missed this, but what is the most damaging spell in S? With and without perks?

I know in O there was a limit but casting Weakness to Magic and Weakness to Element would impact the subsequent elemental spell.