We're not talking about pure Mage. Don't want to start talking about "other" spells and open that can of worms.

And even if I enchant my gear at a normal level I am not going to be godlike in Master.
The Damage Received/Damage Dealt on old difficulties used to be 1/6-6x 1/3-3x 1-1 3x-1/3 6x-1/6.
Not sure if its the same in Skyrim.

If I enchanted my gear +One Handed without folding it still take more 20 hits to kill on Master.

There is a trade off. Use range to your advantage. Warriors are based on primarily passive stats playstyle. Mages are a very active playstyle Don't try to tank cast like you're power attacking with spells if you're not taking Heavy Armor perks.

*falls over in shock at the sheer logic*

Logic? ON TEH INTERWEBZ?!?!?! RLY?!?!?!?!?!

In all seriousness, thats what I do. I was initially skeptical about how they've done the game this time (seriously, I went "WHAT? NO *STATS*?") but it makes sense when you think about it - they are going for immersion, using a spreadsheet to make yourself stronger/more proficient takes away from that feeling somewhat...

Even if you enchanted an iron dagger to cost zero stamina, it would still be a pain to kill a dragon with it. That's the problem here: capped damage is still capped, even if you can increase it through (exploiting) Alchemy and Enchantment. It's still going to take a crazy amount of lightning bolts to take out a dragon when you're level 40+. So you can stun-lock it. So what? You're going to fall asleep while mashing your attack button during the 5 minutes it takes to kill that dragon.

I have not been using exaggerations when I discuss this matter. 5 minutes is unrealistic. Most Destruction Mages are saying 20+ spells. And staggering is a valid trade off for not taking damage and keeping them at max range.
I am saying that without folding Enchanting/Alchemy my Warrior still has to hit an Elder Dragon at least 20 times.

This could be fixed if we just got a Destruction spells do X% extra damage enchantment like there's for one handed etc.

The only problem people have with enchanting is when you take it to such extremes as to seperate a mage from his magicka bar. When there is no chance of running OOM, there's no challenge. If you wanted to put ALL of your magicka into one ultra-powerful spell, that should just be one of those risks you take. But you should be rewarded for it. Only problem is, as it stands, we can't. I'd rather have +%magicka damage on my gear than -%magica costs, and I'd sure as hell would like it more than +% regen.

I agree 100% A dual wielding warrior with 1 hand at a 100 and the perk tree filled will still get owned when he is in a chefs outfit. There are so many different ways to play this game it astonishes me that people complain.

People are so lazy now a days .... MY fire doesn't kill this fast enough so it must be broken....... Nope, actually you didn't put enough time into it.

I'm a mic-nasty mage because i choose to support it with other skills instead of Bi**H about how i think it should dominate everything.

I`m whooping ass with a Level 43 pure mage on expert so i don't see the problem, and i don't even do any alchemy.

I made smithed + enchanted daedric armor with daedric greatsword (didn't fold enchanting/alchemy... didn't even use alchemy at all). Found an ancient dragon... hit elemental fury when it landed and killed it in about 10 seconds. Problem?

So you don't have any skills in armour, or block? come on people, really your "combat" skill are not the only skill a warrior uses. Drop your shield (if any) drop all of your armour including any rings or amulets, buy a ebony or deadric weapon (unimproved NO smithing) and all of your health potions, and go face a dragon, on adept, and see just how long you last. I am betting the second if not first blast of fire/frost from the dragon kills you.

Of course a mage needs to use other skills, I damn well use more than my one handed skill to win a fight.

In other news, the search function on the forums works.

Perhaps you could give that a shot before posting a thread which seemingly thinks this hasn't been mentioned at least a dozen times already.

See my previous post.

Try it with a one handed weapon and a shield.
And I'd love to see a video with your item stats.

i have to say that the players who say we shouldnt use other skills to make one tree super effective are bad players in general who should just be quiet and play on easy.

FOR the OP, You made a great post and it highlights what you need to do. alchemy isnt nessasary but it helps ppl need to understand enchanting is important and enchanting is under the mage sign at the stone.


For an Archer you invest in the sneak skills, you invest in smithing to upgrade bows and you invest in enchanting to get the +dmg% enchants and for your weapon. Being an archer without them makes you gimped.
BUT playing an archer you are most likely under the thief tree and you gain sneak and such easier.

As a melle character regardless of what type of armor Taking Damage is always happening and if you arent using the restoration tree well you are invested heavily in Smithing, Enchanting and you are blowing through Pots like no tommorow if you are on master compared to the rest.


Playing a Mage in comparison takes LESS work to be come maximally effective, You only need your destruction skills, probably a summon can help but its not nessasary and Enchanting is EASY to level and there are robes which reduce the cost so wont even have to enchant much. but leveling enchanting smithing and etc are so abysmally easy that i find players who dont do it well.. Thats your problem then..play the game like that.. just dont play it on master and complain the game is HARD...lol


soo many bad players still using their novice spells and have leveled up complaining about mana cost yet havent invested in any gear. They want to run around naked and blow things up and complain. Put the game on easy.

How long did it take for your promotion in the Bethesda Defense Corps?





Uh, no. Not only do you NOT need any investment into the Sneak tree as an archer, you also do not need a single point into the Smithing tree. You are talking about bow sneak attack x3 and Shadow Warrior. One "helps", while the other completely trivializes the game.



It's quite apparent that you are spouting misinformation based off assumptions rather than actual experience here. The only time melee ever have to use a potion is vs a named two-handed enemy or a random Mage that shocks 90% of your life away in a single hit. This applies to every playstyle though. You do not need to drink a potion just because your health bar drooped down to 80%. Melee take significantly less damage thanks to actually gaining levels in their armor proficiencies, while an Archer/Mage even in Heavy is going to take a massive beating in comparison, because they typically only have the base AR from their armor.




Do not confuse "Mage" with "Destruction, because I can certainly make a "Mage" that has absolutely no problems on Master difficulty, They just do not use Destruction, because it's a waste of both effort and resorces over practically anything else that I can be doing. By the time you reach Twin Souls in the Conjuration tree, the only possible contribution YOU can personally add is a stun and nothing more. Well guess what? Alteration can do it as well and do it MUCH better.




So many trolls who have not even played above Adept level or only played Smithing + Enchanting Warriors on Master think that they have the rest of us figured out.

Another one of these "exploit or die" threads.

Yes, everyone knows about this exploit. Just Two weeks ago it was called nothing but a cheat by everyone here, until people realized it was actually somewhat necessary for Master. No, not everyone wants to be forced to taking out an entire game mechanic (magicka) in order to stand a chance as destro. This allows you to avoid putting any points into magicka (gaming the entire system), it avoid any use of reduction perks, and it avoids any use of anything but heavy armor. It absolutely trumps regen gear or +magicka point gear by an absurd amount. I'm sure that the magicka bar is in the game for a reason, much like the stamina bar.


By other skills you specifically mean 1 Enchanting exploit. It requires no skill and makes the game easier than novice - seems like the "bad players" might be the ones using this trick.

Not every single enchant is going to be equal in value. What video game have you been playing where there isn't a best possible stat above all others? I've never played it.
Warriors have to use Enchanting, Smithing and Alchemy perks to survive in Master. Can you tell me why exactly you don't have to?

I'm not asking for a "best possible stat", I wouldn't mind if the gap wasn't so huge due to one of them being a an exploit. seriously, no magicka bar? lol....

Second, warriors do NOT need to exploit those 3 skills (which results in 4k damage 2k armor, overkill much?) to be viable on master. Neither does conjuration, illusion, sneak, or bow.


Let me say it again: taking out the magicka bar and not having to spend a single point into magicka or 5 of the required perks is laughable and obviously broken. Conjurers and Illusionists aren't forced to do this.

So what do Destruction only Mages who refuse to use Alchemy, Enchanting or any other trees want exactly?

What do you want Incinerate to do?
Do you want it to do as much damage as a Two Hand Warrior without using Alchemy, Enchanting or any other trees? Because it already does that with ranged AoE that staggers.
Do you want it to do as much damage as a Two Hand Warrior folding Alchemy and Enchanting to make maximum potions? Because it already does that with ranged AoE that staggers.
Or do you want it to do as much damage as a Two Hand Warrior folding Alchemy, Enchanting and Smithing? Even though it is ranged AoE that staggers?

You actually want it single shot everything in the game at maximum possible distance with an AoE radius that staggers? Awesome game...

So.

I was tired of reading topics how destruction svcks and decided to try it out for myself.
My lvl 48 or something character with destruction of 24 started leveling it (or rather paying for training)..

So by the time my destruction rose to skill 50 I was lvl 50 and in some random dwemer ruin..
The whole time I was searching for a staff and finally I found it, a chain lightning staff.

Then I discovered something that drastically changes the way destruction is perceived.

Staff benefits from IMPACT!!
Meaning if you cast a spell from your staff (or actually channel it) and you have impact perk (and you should have it) your opponent will be staggered.
It does not matter what you have in the other hand..

Why is this important?!
Here is an example.

300 magicka pool, random spell that costs 50 and does 100 dmg
- you can cast the spell 6 times inflicting 600 dmg before you are oom
- you can dual cast the spell for 560 dmg (2 x 140) and do 440 dmg but stagger your enemy
- you cat cast the spell 6 times doing 600 dmg and combine the casting of your staff and do another 600 dmg for free for a grand total of 1200 dmg

After discovering this I firmly believe that bethesda envisioned mages with a staff in one hand and a spell in another..

Staffs benefit from "augmented" perks.
Staffs benefit from "impact" perk.
Staffs benefit from high destruction.


So yeah.
This makes destruction a cake walk even after 50.

Atm lvl 55 with destruction of 77 and still using chain lightning (skill 50 spell)in combo with a chain lightning staff and loving it.

You do not need enchanting to be viable, but you need a staff..
Which is perfectly understandable.

Without enchanting we do considerably less dps than any other damage type, dps accounts for magicka and how much you can cast. On master you go out of magicka very fast on 1 mob alone, imagine many.

It's just enchanting that is over-required, an absurd over-reliance. It's insane. I would'nt mind better regen and some reduced costs to make sense with magicka per damage.




Like I said before, even conjuration and illusion (preferably w/ a bow) offer far superior results without having to exploit your magicka bar away.

And you're wrong.
I am 43. I haven't folded anything.
I crafted my One Handed Daedric Axe and enhanced it with a +20% Smithing potion and it's 84 damage at 90 One Hand skill. Not 4000...
And I have 1000 armor with enhanced Heavy Dragon Armor, not 2000, but I actually need 1000 armor to stay alive in melee range.

And nobody is forcing you to take -100% Destruction. You have 8 slots to reduce magicka costs. You could take the reduction perks and stack -50% Destruction/Illusion/Alteration/Conjuration or some combination of that and still maintain a bar.

Maybe the real problem is : if the highest Destr spell does 90 and combined with Alchemy / Enchant it does 234... Should it not be something more like: Destr spell doing 140 and Alchemy / Enchant granting +50 each (ttl 240)? In other words, most of Destruction Power coming from the skill itself?

Do you have a high level mage? I used 65% reduction for Destro and even with downscaling I had to use an entire magicka bar on 1 scourgelord. There was 3 in the room.

50%? lol....What you just suggested is a joke.

You're right - non-Restoration warriors don't have to constantly chug health potions to stay alive or anything...

:facepalm: