[Relz] Duke Patrick's CombatTweaks

Post » Sun May 20, 2012 3:48 am

II've had followers dying before DP's mod got released so I think it's a vanilla thing as well. besides I seem to remember seeing an essential followers mod on the nexus, which means they arent essential by default
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Adam Baumgartner
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 12:02 am

I seem to be noticing my follower dying more.

As I understand it they are set to essential unless you the player hit them and take them down - is that correct? Or is that bad information? It is correct according to this page: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Followers

Who I have with me is Kharjo a Khajit I got after fetching his necklace. So far (even using version 1 of this mod) he has acted like all essential followers in that when he is hurt he kneels down till his health gets back up. Now with version 2 - is it possible that the essential flag is being removed from the followers. Combat is difficult for sure now, but this guy is fodder - he dies all the time.

Just tested without this mod active and where he died three times previously (I just hid and watched him get beat on) and he only kneeled down but did not die. I like a tough game but I want essential followers.

So maybe it is that this kneeling down they do is a sign that once their health is too low they do this and then the enemies move onto the next target, but if they are hit too hard then and exceed their health then they die as there is no time to trigger the kneeling.

I will try with this mod active: http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3111 ... and yes no death only kneeling.

I suspect that your mod is disabling essential status on followers.

Followers only seem like they're essential because:

A) A few seconds after kneeling they heal faster.
B) Most enemies, even mindless ones, honour your follower's yielding (usually the follower flees at low health)

Normally I find when a follower dies it's because I killed him, usually from AoE or them jumping in front of my shot/swing. Note that with auto-aim off this may occur more.

I have Meeko set to essential because his AI doesn't seem to let him flee very often, and stuff like my Frost Atronach keeps killing him. And using this mod hasn't increased number of deaths for Meeko or Lydia.
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Manuela Ribeiro Pereira
 
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Post » Sat May 19, 2012 6:17 pm

Followers can die. However that's difficult because when their health is low enough they kneel, wchich acts as a signal that the follower must be left alone for a while. Now if they are hit with enough strenght when they health is low (but not so low that they kneel) then they will die.

That's normal vanilla behavior, and should have nothing to do with Duke's mod.
That has to be it. Rarely do things hit that hard in vanilla so the kneeling (time out) saves them.

Norbingel- if you read the UESP page it says that some followers are essential and some are not - even the essential mod states that it now effects all followers, but I'd revise this theory that none are if they are hit when down. The reason it is that they die when you hit them is because all the AI encounters won't hit them when they are kneeling.

So unless there is also something that prevents them from taking too much damage on that hit when they are also low that this mod ignores then yeah it is not this mod.

I play on difficulty right in the middle (adept I think) and they just never die - with the upped damage here it happens often. So while Wrye Bash has an issue with the Follower Tweaks mod it is not an important companion mod to this. Perhaps there will be settings for unconsciousness that can be tweaked once the CK is out (like in Oblivion) then even thought they go down they can be revised with healing spells. It is kind of un-immersive that they take a time out during actual combat.
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Hearts
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 5:06 am

I've always liked these kind of mods, I prefer my combat to be fast and lethal with tactics, rather than button mashing. I'm a big fan of Dark/Demons' Souls, and used mods like this and Deadly Reflexes in Oblivion. I look forward to what you can do with the CK!
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sarah
 
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Post » Sat May 19, 2012 11:50 pm

Did revision 2 help with the giants issue?
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Lucky Boy
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 8:34 am

Did revision 2 help with the giants issue?

Yep. That's me back to being constantly one-shotted into space. Thanks for the fix. :smile:
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scorpion972
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 12:58 am

Any chance the version on the Nexus can have Mod Manager support enabled? Looks like a great mod.
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Mistress trades Melissa
 
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Post » Sat May 19, 2012 8:26 pm

I only have the file on that site because they are operating the SkyRim nexus more like they did the oblivion nexus 4 years ago (without out a lot of unavoidable pop up adds and very loud videos playing ).

As soon as they change that (will probably happen once they have more mods and traffic) I will not load a file there anymore and instead list a mirror link there instead.

so.... basically ....no.

I do not even know what "Mod Manager support enabled" is anyway probably because I do not spend a lot of time there the way I did 4 years ago (back then I spent every lunch hour online there) . I find it hard to do things like edit my mod's entries and uploaded files (took me 1/2 hour to figure out how to upload an image for my mod) and search for files there these days.

They have gotten so big and popular that the personal touch is no longer possible (I use to email several of the mangers including the dark one himself and got responses and problems resolved quickly. But now I am just one of thousands of people trying to get their attention, so I moved on to another site ( TES Alliance) were they have time to help me personally and not via automation.

Any chance the version on the Nexus can have Mod Manager support enabled? Looks like a great mod.
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Allison C
 
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Post » Sat May 19, 2012 11:31 pm

This svcks, I was hoping it would NOT.
Because the combat distance is almost back to were it was before (over 7 feet just for hand to hand).

In the next version I will set it down 10% and hope that that splits the differences from where I want it (4 feet) and were it needs to be to allow the giants to easily hit you (6 feet).

I pray to god this is solvable in the CK, because if it turns out that this combat distance setting is for all weapons (daggers at 7 feet!!!???) and there is no individual range anymore for melee weapons I will be very tempted to stop modding Skyrim combat and just go back to Oblivion. :(

As it is now I was wondering why I could not find separate settings for normal actors and then for "giants" like it was in Oblivion. And why there was no H2H setting for range.

wow...could they really have done that? (one setting only for all weapons and actors?) :nope: Talk about dumbing the game down....

Yep. That's me back to being constantly one-shotted into space. Thanks for the fix. :smile:
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chinadoll
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 6:48 am

I only have the file on that site because they are operating the SkyRim nexus more like they did the oblivion nexus 4 years ago (without out a lot of unavoidable pop up adds and very loud videos playing ).

As soon as they change that (will probably happen once they have more mods and traffic) I will not load a file there anymore and instead list a mirror link there instead.

so.... basically ....no.

I do not even know what "Mod Manager support enabled" is anyway probably because I do not spend a lot of time there the way I did 4 years ago (back then I spent every lunch hour online there) . I find it hard to do things like edit my mod's entries and uploaded files (took me 1/2 hour to figure out how to upload an image for my mod) and search for files there these days.

They have gotten so big and popular that the personal touch is no longer possible (I use to email several of the mangers including the dark one himself and got responses and problems resolved quickly. But now I am just one of thousands of people trying to get their attention, so I moved on to another site ( TES Alliance) were they have time to help me personally and not via automation.
Shoot me a message when you want to put it on nexus and I can write an NMM install script if you don't wasn't to do it yourself. :)
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Stephanie Kemp
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 1:06 am

I'll Join alliance for the updates/future version as soon as that comes to pass. been a Nexus guy since 04 so I know what it once was like over there.


Anyway yeah I've been running around with your mod, I have so few mods installed I don't even notice. I'm liking the tweaks I've notice I have to be much more careful with my swings save I strike my followers, I'm not sure how I feel about the reach of the swings yet, I haven't been paying attention. my promise to focus more and give as much info as humanly needed.
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Anthony Diaz
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 6:58 am

Just want to throw something out there. You mention that you're making it a much bigger, nastier penalty to not block an attack, which is fine. However, dual-wielders cannot block at all, and should not be completely screwed if they take a hit.

Maybe your changes to the hit 'magnetism' would make it more possible to dodge attacks, as right now in the game it seems very difficult to dodge blows at times. If a quick dual-wielding character could dodge blows rather than blocking them, I'd be happy.
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Gemma Flanagan
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 6:09 am

huh? where do I say that? :ermm:

No I want the game to "feel" as real as I can make it feel (per my extensive RL melee combat experiences).

Real life "sport" melee combat is FREAKING FUN! I want to bring that experience to the virtual combat. As such I will only make mods that advance this goal when ever I possibly can. (As such you will not see a lot of game mechanics "tricks" in my mods such as making daggers hit from 7 feet away or making shields act like armor instead of more like a weapon! )

The reason that most game DEV do this is because they do not know the RL balances for the combat and so instead make up "gamish" balances like no blocking for dual weapon fighters. So yes you should be able to dodge effectively under the right circumstances, but more importantly you should be able to block with one of your two weapons.

Or, you can wear a ton of heavy armor to try to live thru your berserking twin ax frenzy attack I suppose....

The big nasty penalty I will give you will be for mashing the attack button, attacking with zero stamina and not managing your offences and defense strategies.

But maybe I misunderstood your question?



Just want to throw something out there. You mention that you're making it a much bigger, nastier penalty to not block an attack, which is fine.
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Jonathan Montero
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 7:49 am

You mention that you're making it a much bigger, nastier penalty to not block an attack, which is fine. However, dual-wielders cannot block at all, and should not be completely screwed if they take a hit.

If only it were possible to temporarily lower a hostile actor's turning speed while they are doing the forward power attack or sprinting power attack. Then dual wielders have a chance to dodge the attack, instead of virtually none at all.
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James Baldwin
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 7:49 am

huh? where do I say that? :ermm:

No I want the game to "feel" as real as I can make it feel (per my extensive RL melee combat experiences).

Real life "game" melee combat is FREAKING FUN! I want to bring that experience to the virtual combat. As such I will only make mods that advance this goal when ever I possibly can.

The reason that most game DEV do not do this is because they do not know the RL balances for the combat and so instead make up "gamish" balances like no blocking for dual weapon fighters.

You say it right here:

Shield and weapons block a LOT more damage now, you will now actually feel a difference when you allow a weapon to hit or you succeed with a block.

I interpreted this as meaning that weapons will hit harder if you don't block, rather than just upping how much damage is blocked, which to me, seems realistic (you get hit with a sword in reality and you're going to be pretty [censored]). I may have misunderstood, if you're just upping the damage that is blocked, then my concern is on something that doesn't exist.
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Cool Man Sam
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 12:11 am

Ah, if you could figure out a way to script it so you can block with dual-wielding... so much awesome.

Or it not block, parrying effects
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Chris Jones
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 12:47 am

mmmmm....

The big nasty penalty should be for mashing the attack button, attacking with zero stamina and not managing your offences and defense strategies.

The better your skill the smaller your "parry weapon" can be (new guy needs to use a tower shield but a master can do fine blocking with a short sword!)

And yes I will be making the weapons hit much harder then they do now. Even a new guy can kill you in one hit with an axe, but he will have a very hard time getting it past your defenses and will likely die before he can land the attack!

You say it right here:
I interpreted this as meaning that weapons will hit harder if you don't block, rather than just upping how much damage is blocked, which to me, seems realistic (you get hit with a sword in reality and you're going to be pretty [censored]). I may have misunderstood, if you're just upping the damage that is blocked, then my concern is on something that doesn't exist.
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Travis
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 7:32 am

mmmmm....

The big nasty penalty should be for mashing the attack button, attacking with zero stamina and not managing your offences and defense strategies.

Right, I don't think we disagree. All I was saying was that if attacks do more damage in general when not blocked, dual wielders should be provided with some way of avoiding those attacks so as to not make that type of character overly difficult to play. Dodging is an option, or finding a way to script in blocking with 2 weapons is another one (but far more complex, I have a feeling).

And if your mod doesn't actually make the weapons do more damage, then I misunderstood and you can disregard my suggestion.
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Strawberry
 
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Post » Sat May 19, 2012 6:15 pm

This svcks, I was hoping it would NOT.
Because the combat distance is almost back to were it was before (over 7 feet just for hand to hand).

In the next version I will set it down 10% and hope that that splits the differences from where I want it (4 feet) and were it needs to be to allow the giants to easily hit you (6 feet).

I pray to god this is solvable in the CK, because if it turns out that this combat distance setting is for all weapons (daggers at 7 feet!!!???) and there is no individual range anymore for melee weapons I will be very tempted to stop modding Skyrim combat and just go back to Oblivion. :(

As it is now I was wondering why I could not find separate settings for normal actors and then for "giants" like it was in Oblivion. And why there was no H2H setting for range.

wow...could they really have done that? (one setting only for all weapons and actors?) :nope: Talk about dumbing the game down....
I'm pretty sure that hand to hand reach is way lesser than the reach weapons have. So, unless they have make that difference in a very bizarre way, you should be able to adjust weapons reach separatelly once the CK is out. Maybe not in a direct and simple way though.
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Sophie Louise Edge
 
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Post » Sat May 19, 2012 7:25 pm

That is another game setting that was in Oblivion that I could not find for Skyrim (actor turning speed). I am worried it is now hard coded.

God I hope the CK is really as powerful as they claim, I hope it can tap into some of these missing game settings!

Here are a few good things about Skyrim:

NO cartoon like shaders! :celebration: All the magic fire works for combat are brief and very realistic looking (not like something you would see on scooby doo or power ranger swords!) So that is one thing I do not need to change.

Actors attacks are much slower then in oblivion and the animations show the wind up and the attack and the return phase all moving at different speeds. That is a BIG step forward for realism! If only you could dynamically change the speeds as they attack via scripting...sorry that is a far fetched dream of mine...

Actors seem to have a few more ways they retract (react) from the attacks when hit than was in oblivion.


If only it were possible to temporarily lower a hostile actor's turning speed while they are doing the forward power attack or sprinting power attack. Then dual wielders have a chance to dodge the attack, instead of virtually none at all.
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W E I R D
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 8:35 am

Right, I don't think we disagree. All I was saying was that if attacks do more damage in general when not blocked, dual wielders should be provided with some way of avoiding those attacks so as to not make that type of character overly difficult to play. Dodging is an option, or finding a way to script in blocking with 2 weapons is another one (but far more complex, I have a feeling).

And if your mod doesn't actually make the weapons do more damage, then I misunderstood and you can disregard my suggestion.
I'm still running version 1 and I find my 2 hander orc is able to dodge more easily now. I rarely block (really only when I overextend and miss and can't back out in time). I was going to switch over to version 2 but since it seems uncomfortably like vanilla, meaning I likely won't be able to dodge again, I think I'll wait since I haven't faced any giants yet and wont know if the old issue arises for me. Still, I feel that dodging could be better for those who CHOOSE not to block and instead time their attacks.

I do hope turning speed and individual weapons reach is there. First things I noted that could be improved in Skyrim melee combat were those 2.
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stacy hamilton
 
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Post » Sat May 19, 2012 7:01 pm

You are very right!

I will put up a version 3 with TWO esp files. One will be for those that do not mind the giants missing their attacks sometimes and want the more realistic range.
The other will be what I have now in version 2.

Once I have the CK I will not be offering separate files like that however, maintaining separate esp files is a night mare.

I will try to put up rev 3 tomorrow.


I'm still running version 1 and I find my 2 hander orc is able to dodge more easily now. I rarely block (really only when I overextend and miss and can't back out in time). I was going to switch over to version 2 but since it seems uncomfortably like vanilla, meaning I likely won't be able to dodge again, I think I'll wait since I haven't faced any giants yet and wont know if the old issue arises for me. Still, I feel that dodging could be better for those who CHOOSE not to block and instead time their attacks.

I do hope turning speed and individual weapons reach is there. First things I noted that could be improved in Skyrim melee combat were those 2.
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Maeva
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 8:17 am

two esp files I'd better also, to give you that appeals to everyone
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Caroline flitcroft
 
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Post » Sun May 20, 2012 2:47 am

Duke, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1317388-wiprelz-pise-plutos-improved-skyrim-experience/page__view__findpost__p__19835525. Perhaps it may interest you. :) If it does, maybe you can contact Plutoman and see what he's learned :o
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Katie Samuel
 
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Post » Sat May 19, 2012 8:29 pm

Duke here's something that might be of interest to you from http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?app=forums&module=post§ion=post&do=reply_post&f=183&t=1317388&qpid=19835504

Good news. I just confirmed that I can edit the hardcoded game settings, so I do have access to.. everything.

Flanking chances, angles, circling, strafing, attack chances in various situations, blocking, ranged attacks for aiming (how well the AI tracks targets), anticipation settings, heck, the chance an NPC has to use a racial power, magic ai settings (various settings for chances to dual cast, and a couple other things), distances used for combat, paralyze settings (*evil grin*), detection settings, search settings (can make them search farther and more for sneaking characters), and more... I'm excited for the next few days.

EDIT: err... :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:
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LADONA
 
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