No you dont get to tell people to swallow or shove off.
They have just as much right to post here as you do.

Now quit being undemocratic.

I don't believe that. Can you offer me a link wherein they state they have no authority over decisions made for this game? Because that would be very stupid- that means Zenimax could write whatever lore and story they wanted. This is Bethesda's baby, they wouldn't hand it over without having any authority to say 'no' if something is just way out of line with TES lore.

I think they said the lore guys check in with them every so often, just to make sure lore is correct... however BS has said that ESO is all on Zenimax Online and this is not there next project.

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Replies are in bold and underlined.

It basically sounds like another WoW clone from the Gameinformer article. Why can't the developers see that the Elder Scrolls was meant to be a sandbox game? SOE did a wonderful job with Star Wars Galaxies (IMO) and they were even able to put player houses in. The way SWG handled the sandbox style was awesome too, you got to go to memorable locations, explore large dungeons, do instances, and find a lot of amazing stuff that was already established in the Star Wars lore. Plus, Space combat felt like space combat, not whatever the heck TOR made.

Unfortunately, they shut SWG down and TOR went up. (huge mistake)

All I'm saying is: If I wanted to play WoW, I'd go play WoW. They'd better not stop the making of Single Player Elder Scrolls games, and they should definitely not get pushed to the back seat while this MMO is active. Some of the ideas it's implementing sound cool, but most of them sound like re-hashed "fantasy MMO" ideas. If they insist on making an Elder Scrolls MMO, at least make it more like the Elder Scrolls series. Make it open-world (instead of segmenting off parts of dungeons or the world that the player isn't a high enough level for), give it player houses, PvE, first or third person views, and manual combat, not WoW combat.

/rant

This viewpoint is about as valid now as it was when the 4E D&D crowd told people they should stop complaining about the alterations made to the Forgotten Realms, or when the Mass Effect 3 fans(that didn't mind the ending) told the Retake ME crowd they should stop complaining. That is to say that it is not. I am not against the idea of a TES MMO, but only if it remained true to both the lore and the gameplay of the elder Elder Scrolls games. Designed around the 1st person perspective(with optional 3rd person), direct input of action, usage based skill gain unrestricted by classes, etc. If it does not have this then it is not a TES game and there are those that are unwilling to simply let Zenimax believe that we are content with a watered down doppelganger. I don't care if it's a WoW clone, a Guild Wars clone, or a Tetris clone. If it's not modeled after the TES series then I want Zenimax to know that they have lost a sale and why. I want them to know how many sales they've lost. I want the discontent to make themselves known.

On the other hand, I'm not going to invade threads to post off topic just to make myself heard. But hey: look at the title of the thread.

You need to seperate the main RPG series from the other Elder Scrolls games here.
The MMO will not be a part of the main series.
It will be like Redguard, Battlespire or the travel games.

If history is any indication then that means that while gameplay may vary a lot from that of the RPG series, adherence to lore and lore building is as consistent and impressive as ever.

I agree with this, but at least on my part, I'm not complaining about people who have a negative opinion (I.E.: "I don't think this game will be good for reasons x, y, and z"), but that's not what is happening.

I'm complaining about the doomsayers and sensationalists who are whining and crying about how horrible MMO's are, this game shouldn't even be made (completely negating the people who are excited for an Elder Scrolls MMO), ZeniMax and Bethesda are evil overlords, and making demands that absolutely must be met otherwise Bethesda and ZeniMax will continue to be bashed. It is the sense of entitlement that people have, when it is as simple as if you don't like the game you don't have to buy it.

I am excited for an Elder Scrolls MMO, however from what I have read I don't think this is the game I am looking for, because it sounds like they aren't really using anything that makes The Elder Scrolls series special, and instead making a generic MMO and slapping the Elder Scrolls name on it. I'm not anticipating a huge success in my eyes.

That doesn't mean that I'm going to run around doomsaying about how horrible a decision this was, and demanding that ZeniMax reconsider. I'll just simply decide to play it or not.

They may hire more developers at Zenimax Online, there not going to bring over Bethesda Game Studios... they have there own projects to work on, which not only includes TES, but Fallout too, maybe even a new IP. BGS has already said they have a new project planned.


ESO is not going to get anywhere near WoW subscribers that is the point... no other MMO has been able too. NONE. This is the point, SWTOR only has 1.7 active subscribers, it will barley make a profit if it keeps in current subscribers. MMO's cost a lot more money to make than a single player game. So Skyrims sales are, while not making money for them every month... has been almost pure profit. Your also forgetting there is a huge difference between $60 and $15 when it comes to profit.

Also SWTOR cost EA around 200 - 300 million dollars to make, this was not beacuse of voice acting as I seen you post, it had over 800 developers working on it at one time over the span of 6 years. I pretty sure I read that ESO only has around 250... and even then EA said if it had failed they would have still been okay.


Apple to Oranges, these companies don't make or have the money Zenimax does...

I agree with you on this point.
Bottom line is, the GI article did not excite alot of people.

Do you really think that TES online will be anything like Skyrim?

Do you think it wil be anything like WoW?

Oh well I guess in that case, it's time for me to head over to the WoW forums and whine and moan and [censored] about how [censored] that game is.

Because you know, even though it's a game that I hate, have no hopes of ever enjoying, and I am clearly not part of the intended audience, I should just be allowed to go over there and whine and moan about how awful that game is, and they will have no place to tell me to shut up because hey... that's undemocratic...

I have very little experience with MMO's
I played the wow and eve free trial and have played runescape a bit.
So Im sort of seeing this with a mind unsullied by experiences with bad/ generic MMO's I suppose.

What excites me is the opportunity to meet up with other real people inside the virtual TES universe and being very true to lore and roleplaying.

The posts of people that are often just one line saying how bad things are, well I just ignore them.
They have the right to have their say, even if they lack the will or ability to use proper arguments and instead just emote.
Thats perfectly fine with me, possibly by venting their displeasure they relieve themselves of stress and it shows other people who think the same they are not alone.
Just let em have their post, Id say.
Its when we start going against it that it becomes complicated and unfriendly.

The distinct difference here is that these ARE fans of the game world they are using for this. Your anology is fallacious.

You are in for a surprise when you will discover the wonderful mmo community.

A bunch of lore forumites are going to team up in the Ebonheart alliance.
It will be great

Why does it matter?

If you don't like the product, you don't buy it, simple as that. You are simply not the target audience - ZeniMax is not wrong for that. They are only "wrong" if they make a product that is broken. They are not wrong because they made a product you don't like. In that case, you simply have the option of not buying it. But going on a crusade to make your voice heard to make sure they "know" the error of their ways is ridiculous.

I don't like World of WarCraft. I am not going to go on the WoW forums and complain about how bad I think that game svcks, and all the things I think Blizzard did wrong. I am just simply not going to buy that game nor subscribe to it. That is the extent that I need to vocalize my opinion. Me going on the WoW forums to rant and rave about how bad that game svcks is going to 1.) do absolutely nothing productive and 2.) only piss people off who do enjoy the game and want to discuss it without people like me running around everywhere talking about how bad the game svcks.

If a bad video game is causing them stress, then I think they need to re-evaluate their life.


I was a fan of the WarCraft games and world before World of WarCraft... OFF TO THE WOW FORUMS I GO TO [censored]!!!

How about another anology - I was a huge fan of the Metal Gear series, long long before it became Metal Gear Solid. I played the PS and PS2 titles, but ultimately, the series started heading in a direction that was not what I liked about the series.

Instead of going online and [censored]ing about it, I just stopped buying the games when they became something I no longer enjoyed, and I found something else to fill that void.

Or even better yet, I was a loyal Star Wars Galaxies gamer when the Combat Upgrade, and eventually New Game Enhancements came out. Those changes, in my eyes, ruined the game and took away everything I had loved about SWG. I left the game, and I left the forums, instead of hanging around whining and crying about what it became. I moved on, because I realized hey, as much as it svcks, as much as I want the original SWG back, it's a freaking video game, it's not that serious, and unfortunately, I am no longer the target audience that they are looking for.

He is the customer- he is an Elder Scrolls player. It's absurd to tell a future customer they have no right to express their displeasure in the brand. If I use Tide detergent, and they decide to do another product and I don't like the look of that product, as their customer, they EXPECT me to give them that information. Companies spend millions of dollars to find out the information we are sharing here for FREE. This is free marketing information for them, and yes, they absolutely want us to share our opinions.

You're missing the point. If Zenimax would do the property justice and capture the spirit of the gameplay, they would likely have a subscriber in me(assuming it didn't also fall into the same endgame = raid constantly trap that drove me away from MMOs altogether). But while I own Battlespire(never could find a copy of Redguard), I never put anywhere near as much time into that game as I did Daggerfall and beyond. And that game bore a lot more similarities to TES proper than this MMO seems to at first glance. And so I want Zenimax to know how badly they missed an opportunity by going the safe(tell that to the corpses of MMOs past) route instead of having the balls(or sense, depending on how you look at it) to make a TES game that appeals to people that like TES games.

Believe me, I want this early info to be off the mark so I can eat these words later and enjoy the game. But I don't see me being wrong about this at this point.

Except in this case, Tide detergent still makes the detergent that you have been buying for however long, there is just an alternative detergent under the Tide logo, and you are not forced in any way to purchase or use the new detergent that you don't like, you still have the old detergent that you can always go back to.

If you don't like the look of Elder Scrolls Online, it literally is as simple as "don't buy it, don't subscribe, don't play it", and you lose nothing in that deal.

ZeniMax owes you nothing. They are releasing a product, and it is up to you to determine if you want to purchase that product or not. It's obvious that you don't, so why linger around in a community for something that you have no interest in?

I understand.
When it comes to this I really dont have an opinion yet, I dont have enough info or knowledge of MMO's.
Im going to wait at least until the beta until I decide if this is a game I want to play or not.
I have some concerns about being true to lore and if I find it has been watered down or retconned too much I wont play it.
But when it comes to gameplay, Ill have to reserve an opinion until I can make a more educated one.

I'm sorry but you are very ignorant. I'm not saying that in a rude way, I'm saying it in the direct definition of the word- you have no idea what you are talking about. Companies want to know why someone who should be their demographic (an Elder Scrolls customer in this case) will not purchase their product. They are marketing this product to this demographic. Knowing why this particular person is not going to play is information they want, and they need. I have worked marketing. I know exactly what I am talking about. Please stop attempting to dispute this. It's common knowledge to anyone who has held a marketing or creative services job in any industry.