[Sophie Morrell]

Does anyone think the delay of AP has anything to do with NV? :/

Edit: I don't know how big Obsidian is and how many teams work on seperate projects.

[chinadoll]

So... every game not made by Bethesda svcks?

Obviously not, but that's not what he meant. Beth makes open world, freeform, sandbox RPGs, and Obsidian makes more story driven games. There's nothing wrong with Obsidian's approach, of course, but some of us prefer Beth style freeform RPGs.

[Philip Lyon]

Does anyone think the delay of AP has anything to do with NV? :/

Edit: I don't know how big Obsidian is and how many teams work on seperate projects.

AP's delay was intentional, and was completelyhttp://www.edge-online.com/news/alpha-protocol-delay-official

For the record, they're working on at least 3-4 projects now. The third one according to Feargus, will be announced early 2010 and it will be the first game to be created using their own in-house engine.

Obviously not, but that's not what he meant. Beth makes open world, freeform, sandbox RPGs, and Obsidian makes more story driven games.

"Story-driven" does not strictly mean linear.

[michael flanigan]

AP's delay was intentional, and was completelyhttp://www.edge-online.com/news/alpha-protocol-delay-official

For the record, they're working on at least 3-4 projects now. The third one according to Feargus, will be announced early 2010 and it will be the first game to be created using their own in-house engine.



"Story-driven" does not strictly mean linear.

No, but story driven often means that there is little room to freeform roleplay. Obviously, this comes down to a matter of taste...it's not an argument of story-driven vs freeform, rather that different people like different things.

[Emma Copeland]

Hopefully NV wont turn out like Mass Effect (Not slating the game, clocked hundreds of hours on it)
Mass Effect didn't really allow for an RP element. Sure you could pick what kind of background your character was, but that became limited after a while. Anyone else wondering how New Vegas will start you off?

Will you begin in a vault?
Will you wake up half dead in an irradiated ditch?

Obviously starting off in a vault would limit the RP background aspect (all of your storys would have the same beginning)
Starting off half dead in a ditch would allow for more creative freedom if you understand me

[Dan Endacott]

now with the game of the year edition out i wouldnt be suprised to hear something within the next month. they announced New Vegas in april and since then we have gotten no info on the game. i just hope they dont wait all the way till the next e3 to give us news.

[Daniel Lozano]

Don't forget that people now working on New Vegas previously worked on Van Buren, which was definitely not linear.

[Sebrina Johnstone]

Don't forget that people now working on New Vegas previously worked on Van Buren, which was definitely not linear.

Again, linearity is a different kind of problem. The more specific the story becomes, the less sandbox there is, and the more INTRUSIVE the story is, then the less freeform RPG there can be. Again, I understand that lots of folks like this sort of thing, and that's fine, and maybe we are boxing with shadows here, but ther is some fear that the Obsidian version will not be sandbox enough.

[Donald Richards]

Well, Van Buren was comparable to Fallout 1 and 2 in that regard, and had lots of stuff to do that was not connected with the main quest. The only "intrusive" part of Van Buren's storyline was that you had ULYSSES's robots coming after you until you brought all the prisoners back to Tibbets, but they would become less and less of a problem as you'd level up. Aside from that, you were free to roam the wasteland as you wanted, with only a few locations being unavailable until you made progress in the main quest.

[Lakyn Ellery]

The problem with sandbox RPGs, and Fallout 1/2 were no different, is that the main story loses all power. What good is it to build up some looming threat if you can completely ignore it or even use it to level up on while you go on and rescue cats from trees? I'd say it's worse to have a story that you completely forget about than it is to have a story seem 'intrusive', if that's even possible. I mean, the plot is why we read books, watch movies, or play video games more complex than solitaire.

[Minako]

Which is why I actually liked the time limit in Fallout 1. I also like the Age of Decadence idea that some quests are waiting for you only for as long as you don't leave the town. When you do, they are resolved some way or another (e.g. a questgiver hiring someone else to do the job for him), which has various consequences.

[James Baldwin]

Which is why I actually liked the time limit in Fallout 1. I also like the Age of Decadence idea that some quests are waiting for you only for as long as you don't leave the town. When you do, they are resolved some way or another (e.g. a questgiver hiring someone else to do the job for him), which has various consequences.

The time limit was also my favorite part...and I like the idea of expiring quests so long as "when one door closes another is opened" (or however the adage goes). And I don't have a problem with linearity so long as the story is compelling.

[kelly thomson]

Obviously not, but that's not what he meant. Beth makes open world, freeform, sandbox RPGs, and Obsidian makes more story driven games. There's nothing wrong with Obsidian's approach, of course, but some of us prefer Beth style freeform RPGs.

Obsidian is far less likely to depart from what Fallout was created to be in that department (a balance between story and non-linear gameplay) than Bethesda is; these are the guys who worked on the first two games after all. Personally I prefer that balance, if you focus too much on story than the game comes across as long winded and a boring experience (see post-Neverwinter Nights BioWare), but if you focus entirely on non-linear gameplay than it all comes down to grinding and LARPing neither of which appeal to most RPG gamers.

KOTOR 2 was the only game pushed out unfinished, thanks to LucasArts. NWN2 just wasn't great, especially the ending, but then again, FO3's original ending was pretty lame, too. Didn't stop the game from being successful, so I guess endings are overrated. Heh.

NWN 2 was a great game; it wasn't the greatest game ever but the campaign was definitely better than NWN 1's, and it was probably one of the better RPGs to come out around that time. Mask of the Betrayer was also a great title; it had a strong storyline, and very atmospheric environments. Storm of Zehir not so much, but I respect what Obsidian was trying to accomplish with SoZ (experimenting with new gameplay mechanics, and creating a more traditional hack and slash campaign). It's a matter of taste really, but NWN 2 definitely wasn't a bad game by any stretch of the word as Orc caves aside I personally thought it was a very enjoyable experience. Mask of the Betrayer showed that Obsidian still had it from a narrative perspective, and Storm of Zehir showed that Obsidian was willing to take risks which most modern developers are not (Bethesda included).

[Nikki Hype]

but if you focus entirely on non-linear gameplay than it all comes down to grinding and LARPing neither of which appeal to most RPG gamers.

Which is why a game like Fallout 3 would benefit from the quest design (multiple ways to go about completing a task) that developers of old CRPGS prided themselves over, it only adds to the openness.

[Lucky Girl]

The problem with sandbox RPGs, and Fallout 1/2 were no different, is that the main story loses all power. What good is it to build up some looming threat if you can completely ignore it or even use it to level up on while you go on and rescue cats from trees? I'd say it's worse to have a story that you completely forget about than it is to have a story seem 'intrusive', if that's even possible. I mean, the plot is why we read books, watch movies, or play video games more complex than solitaire.

And this is why we have different games made by different people. I'm not here to argue about what is BEST, because what is best is a matter of taste. I am here to say that I expect F:NV to be potentially LESS sandbox and that may be a problem for me.

Why do all these things deveolve into "My gameplay likes are better than your gameplay likes"? Geez

[Emily Shackleton]

You have no idea what my 'likes' are. My post wasn't about my 'likes'. It was about the universal design flaw with sandbox games that are also heavily story based, which most RPGs are. So kindly keep your assumptions in check.

You can ask any number of developers and they will tell you the same thing. A powerful narrative loses all its 'oomph' when it can be ignored until it's forgotten entirely.

[Sabrina Schwarz]

You have no idea what my 'likes' are. My post wasn't about my 'likes'. It was about the universal design flaw with sandbox games that are also heavily story based, which most RPGs are. So kindly keep your assumptions in check.

You can ask any number of developers and they will tell you the same thing. A powerful narrative loses all its 'oomph' when it can be ignored until it's forgotten entirely.

Yet Beth games, which are known for loose storylines, sell like blockbusters. People like me who like them do so because of the sandbox aspect. Your OPINION is only that, just as mine is.

[His Bella]

Selling like blockbusters doesn't negate the fact that it's flawed...

[Elle H]

Selling like blockbusters doesn't negate the fact that it's flawed...

Can't argue that.

[MatthewJontully]

You have no idea what my 'likes' are. My post wasn't about my 'likes'. It was about the universal design flaw with sandbox games that are also heavily story based, which most RPGs are. So kindly keep your assumptions in check.

You can ask any number of developers and they will tell you the same thing. A powerful narrative loses all its 'oomph' when it can be ignored until it's forgotten entirely.

:nono: Please remain polite and remember one's perceived design flaws are another's design preference. One not better than the next and yes, they are opinions as we have seen on this forum multiple times. Arguing that is like butting ones head against a brick wall and since that gets bloody, we don't allow it here.

[Roberto Gaeta]

NWN 2 was a great game; it wasn't the greatest game ever but the campaign was definitely better than NWN 1's, and it was probably one of the better RPGs to come out around that time. Mask of the Betrayer was also a great title; it had a strong storyline, and very atmospheric environments. Storm of Zehir not so much, but I respect what Obsidian was trying to accomplish with SoZ (experimenting with new gameplay mechanics, and creating a more traditional hack and slash campaign). It's a matter of taste really, but NWN 2 definitely wasn't a bad game by any stretch of the word as Orc caves aside I personally thought it was a very enjoyable experience. Mask of the Betrayer showed that Obsidian still had it from a narrative perspective, and Storm of Zehir showed that Obsidian was willing to take risks which most modern developers are not (Bethesda included).

Yes, Mask was pretty amazing overall. Let's hope they bring that kind of skill to New Vegas, with maybe a dash of SoZ. I liked FO3 overall, but it didn't keep me glued to my computer chair for hours on end like its predecessors. I want to be tempted to call in sick.

[Sweets Sweets]

Urrr when is the next E3?

[TASTY TRACY]

Urrr when is the next E3?

Late spring/early summer.

[Ray]

I doubt they're going to wait for E3 with revealing anything. And Bethesda doesn't really like to reveal new stuff at events like E3, they prefer their own conferences where there's no one else to steal their light.

[Queen Bitch]

Late spring/early summer.

Maybe they'll put something on the site soon. Hopefully...it's been months!