Female Heavy Armor, what's up with the briastplate?

Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:23 am

Why does female armour in Skyrim have a big bust? Probably because the females in Skyrim have big busts...and because players would complain. It seems to be a design/development policy to have female characters in games with overly emphasised female traits...which really does nothing for legitimising video gaming as a serious art or entertainment medium, despite it's popularity.

Film noir emphasises female traits and I consider it, as many do, to be "serious art" if anything is to be classified such.

What is "serious art" anyway? Only that which is enjoyed by the cultural "elite" who deem anything foreign with subtitles as a honest and thorough look into the human condition when it is in fact a low budget, artsy, self-congratulatory mastvrbation fest?

PS. I bet you can't name a single game that was criticised by players for having a lack of boobs or whatever.
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Cartoon
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:06 pm

Look up the box art for TES: Arena :biggrin:
This.

It says exactly how the series has grown.
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Jacob Phillips
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:58 pm

Female "boob" armor is silly fantasy stuff (even beyond the obvious). Just use this excellent mod, I do:
http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=3296
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neil slattery
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:08 pm

See my post above - Before implants, large mammary structures (the glands themselves are largely irrelevant) were the easiest, most reliable way to gauge the strength of a woman, even moreso than limb muscle definition, due to the way female fascia obscures the arm and leg muscles.
Are you.... is this really a conversation? Are we really discussing how intimidating in battle huge knockers would be?

And there is a (very small, thankfully) minority who would actually prefer that, because it would be "more realistic" :rolleyes:


Personally, having grown up with fantasy gaming since the 80's and D&D, I'm perfectly fine with "impractical" armor that looks good. Like I said earlier, it's a staple of the genre.
And that's fine for you. If you want boob plate, wear it. I posted for the OP a couple of options in the game which are reasonable. To me, the boob plate doesn't look good. Something that breaks my brain for its stupidity and looks painful to wear isn't appealing.


Female "boob" armor is silly fantasy stuff (even beyond the obvious). Just use this excellent mod, I do:
http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=3296
I tried that, but since it's based on the male model, my characters arms were huge and bowed out. It didn't look right. I didn't test it with the ebony, though.
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Bloomer
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:21 pm

Well, if you instead give females the same plate armor as males and closed helmets, it quickly reaches a point where picking male or female has little consequences left cause all you see is someone in a tin plate :tongue:
By this logic, you might as well not choose your character's hair color or facial features if they're going to look like every other man or woman in the game.
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Nikki Lawrence
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:43 pm

That's Joan of Arc, a known transvestite. Your point doesn't stand up very well against that.

That's not a valid reason, nor is it a fact.
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His Bella
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:46 pm

By this logic, you might as well not choose your character's hair color or facial features if they're going to look like every other man or woman in the game.

Which is a valid position to take.
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Chelsea Head
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:28 pm

That's where the problem with having such defined briasts comes in. Any blow landing on the insides of the briasts will be directed into the center of the chest and strike with nearly full force.
The problem is not really something piercing the briastplate, it's crushing injury from your own armor. Having metal curved in at your sternum + getting hit with heavy blows= not a good combination.

Indeed; the armor itself could break the sternum due to a fall; or the 'cup' could be partially inverted by blunt impact.

* Ah... look here, this guy actually made one on commission: http://madartlab.com/2011/12/14/fantasy-armor-and-lady-bits/#attachment_7625

The Warrior Nun in Disciples 3 had plausible armor that still looked good.
http://disciples.wikia.com/wiki/Warrior_Nun
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xemmybx
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:17 pm

I kinda like them, they're a good balance between adding a little femininity while still looking like they protect. It's really a compramise, they don't go chainmail bikini but it still lets one know that under the full plate that it's a woman. I just think it would be kinda dull and repetitive if both men and women looked exactly the same in full Armor. Sure it's not the most realistic but then again it's fantasy.
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Eduardo Rosas
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:40 am

Any specific armors you have in mind?

I certainly agree regarding the Wolf armor, Steel Plate and Ebony Plate. They're a little too well defined for my taste and I have a hard time imagining they'd be that effective. That crevice between the briasts would be really good for directing blows into the middle of the chest.

That is exactly what they'd do. Deflect blows to the very most vital of vital organs.

Blow/shot deflection is serious, ask World War II german tank designers and their 'shell catch'. Heavily defended turrets bouncing incoming shells right into extremely thin top deck armor, where crew live. Ooops.
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Danial Zachery
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:27 pm

Indeed; the armor itself could break the sternum due to a fall; or the 'cup' could be inverted by blunt impact.

* Ah... look here, this guy actually made one on commission: http://madartlab.com/2011/12/14/fantasy-armor-and-lady-bits/#attachment_7625
That's a great article, and also touches on what I said up above. To me, the boob armor doesn't look sixy. It looks silly. Women can be sixy badass the same way men are- by being strong and competent, not by emphasizing sixual characteristics. If male armor had huge codpieces, I'd be mocking that, too.
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Russell Davies
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:05 pm

That's a great article, and also touches on what I said up above. To me, the boob armor doesn't look sixy. It looks silly. Women can be sixy badass the same way men are- by being strong and competent, not by emphasizing sixual characteristics. If male armor had huge codpieces, I'd be mocking that, too.
I would say that in a fantasy setting, such items could still make sense if they were magic items to begin with... made by vain or loony magicians of either gender; or made to be concealed under a shirt :shrug:.

** Or made for psychological effect in warfare... Spikey sharp armor only catches a weapon, but it can look demonic and terrifying; or just distracting.

In fact, these books made a point of it. ( :rolleyes:)
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/Gizmojunk/glitteringstone1.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/Gizmojunk/BookoftheSouth.jpg
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DAVId MArtInez
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:57 pm

Why presume a female warrior would want her femininity exaggerated?
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Rhi Edwards
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:52 am

Google "female armor svcks" on college humor's site. Sums it up nicely. ;-)
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Alyna
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:23 am

That's a great article, and also touches on what I said up above. To me, the boob armor doesn't look sixy. It looks silly. Women can be sixy badass the same way men are- by being strong and competent, not by emphasizing sixual characteristics. If male armor had huge codpieces, I'd be mocking that, too.

You mean like http://farm1.staticflickr.com/225/449161530_a68e8e8549_o.jpg?

That was a very good article Gizmo posted and pretty much stated the same things I did, too.

I will say, though, that I do like my characters to retain some semblence of feminity while wearing armor. Just not so defined or exagerated. It's one of the reasons I like scaled armor as much as I do.
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Greg Swan
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:49 pm

You mean like http://farm1.staticflickr.com/225/449161530_a68e8e8549_o.jpg?

That was a very good article Gizmo posted and pretty much stated the same things I did, too.
Am I mistaken or is that photo (ironically) in 3d? :lol:

They also had Sabatons (pointy toed boots); some absurdly long, and I've read the tips had to be hacked off if the knight was thrown or pulled from his horse.

** Edit: The wiki says that "Princes and dukes were allowed to have toes of gothic sabatons 2.5 feet"
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Paula Ramos
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:57 am

Am I mistaken or is that photo (ironically) in 3d? :lol:

I do believe it's an anaglyph image. Of course, it should be noted that armor design often reflect the clothing fashions of their times.
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Raymond J. Ramirez
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:55 pm

You mean like http://farm1.staticflickr.com/225/449161530_a68e8e8549_o.jpg?

That was a very good article Gizmo posted and pretty much stated the same things I did, too.

I will say, though, that I do like my characters to retain some semblence of feminity while wearing armor. Just not so defined or exagerated. It's one of the reasons I like scaled armor as much as I do.
I was thinking more like http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lia5slIe4b1qz59q6o1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1328422497&Signature=2azBm0grCtjexsbZHn4yuDBHCJg%3D (don't click if you've eaten recently). And you never see that in a fantasy game, now do you? And again, dress armor. It's meant to be showy and ridiculous.

The steel and orcish isn't completely practical, either, but it's just less brain-breaking. Like you said, at least an attempt to look reasonable. Let's not even get into the light bikini armors.
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Celestine Stardust
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:03 pm

I do believe it's an anaglyph image. Of course, it should be noted that armor design often reflect the clothing fashions of their times.
That cod looks like it would catch an axe.
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Trevi
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:34 am

Why does female armour in Skyrim have a big bust? Probably because the females in Skyrim have big busts...and because players would complain. It seems to be a design/development policy to have female characters in games with overly emphasised female traits...which really does nothing for legitimising video gaming as a serious art or entertainment medium, despite it's popularity.

This and this. Nuff said.
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Austin England
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:55 pm

That cod looks like it would catch an axe.

Well, given the ornate nature of the armor, I'm guessing it's a ceremonial suit that was never intended to be worn in battle.

I was thinking more like http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lia5slIe4b1qz59q6o1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1328422497&Signature=2azBm0grCtjexsbZHn4yuDBHCJg%3D (don't click if you've eaten recently). And you never see that in a fantasy game, now do you? And again, dress armor. It's meant to be showy and ridiculous.

The steel and orcish isn't completely practical, either, but it's just less brain-breaking. Like you said, at least an attempt to look reasonable. Let's not even get into the light bikini armors.

That looks like something out of someone's perverse S&M or Femdom fantasy.

Anyways, here's what I like about the scaled armor. Overall it's a practical suit of armor that offers pretty decent coverage, yet it still manages to give some emphasis to the female figure. The pauldrons are broad and gves the character look of strength. The briasts are defined, but not overally. I might even call it natural, given what it appears to be made out of. The torso is form fitting, making it slender. Then you have the large belt and fir skirt around the hips. While still being largely practical, it still manages to emphasize the female figure.
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Beth Belcher
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:25 pm

And that's fine for you. If you want boob plate, wear it. I posted for the OP a couple of options in the game which are reasonable. To me, the boob plate doesn't look good. Something that breaks my brain for its stupidity and looks painful to wear isn't appealing.

Considering the TES games (okay, the "recent" ones, just to avoid the people saying "Look! Arena!") are some of the least "offensive" games you'll find, female-armor-wise, it must be really hard for you to find fantasy RPGs that don't break your brain.

:shrug:


(admittedly, Skyrim's a bit more than Oblivion, with the Forsworn stuff. But that's not what you've been going on about, since it's just rough skins.)
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Gracie Dugdale
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:54 pm

As was pointed out, ancient Greeks deliberately emphasised false muscles on their briastplates to intimidate their foes. Keep in mind that certain mythologies such as Greek and Norse had very powerful goddesses as well as gods. Emphasising the female briast is not at all against the culture or the military intent of such societies. It would be for intimidation purposes, not anything regarding some sort of need to hide the female briast or consider practical physics.

Also, I found it odd that some people claimed that ancient people did not have sophisticated math, physics, etc. Actually, they did, as many archeologists and anthropologists would tell you. That's why they were able to make not only the armor and weapons they used, but also buildings, artifacts, and other elements of their cultures.

People who hate "boob plate" must also hate the "peck plate" I suppose. That's ignoring history, though. However, as I said, Earth history doesn't matter for a fantasy game setting. The same rules do not apply. The problem is the player's perceptions and assumptions, not the game.



I hate the boob plate. I think it's stupid. Peck plate, however, is nowhere near as impractical as boop plate. Pectoral muscles, even idealised pectoral muscles, are smaller than the overly generous busoms ingame and envisioned by game developers, the armor is also usually molded leather, or thin steel. Not a heavy briastplate.

Also, the two cultures who most prominently used idealized pectoral muscle armor: did not use the body armor as the primary form of defense in their warfare. Greek, Roman, and Macedonian warfare were fought primarily with the shield as their first defensive tool. Most of the idealized armors were also only worn by the Generals in order to show off how superior looking they were to inspire their men.
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Mashystar
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:38 am

I hate the boob plate. I think it's stupid. Peck plate, however, is nowhere near as impractical as boop plate. Pectoral muscles, even idealised pectoral muscles, are smaller than the overly generous busoms ingame and envisioned by game developers, the armor is also usually molded leather, or thin steel. Not a heavy briastplate.

Also, the two cultures who most prominently used idealized pectoral muscle armor: did not use the body armor as the primary form of defense in their warfare. Greek, Roman, and Macedonian warfare were fought primarily with the shield as their first defensive tool. Most of the idealized armors were also only worn by the Generals in order to show off how superior looking they were to inspire their men.

Greek hoplite briastplates were heavy armor. So were the Roman armors of overlapping plates. Neither would have been easily penetrated with a weapon.
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noa zarfati
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:07 pm

The only one that seems absolutely shameless to me is the Wolf Armor. At least Ebony and Steel plate looks thick enough to handle whatever "deflected" blows it might recieve. Normal Steel and Orcish don't even have such emphasis, and Iron is fairly tame, looking shaped more for comfort rather than fantasy stuff. Steel plate even has a thick crest down the center of the torso on both genders which would probably realistically protect against foolish straight-on stabbing.

Wolf Armor on the other hand is literally just some metal cups, sitting on top of the slope of the armor itself without any reinforcement. Elven is actually the same way and is just as strange.

But neither of those armor sets are anywhere as ridiculous as the stuff people are modding in.
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jennie xhx
 
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