Female Heavy Armor, what's up with the briastplate?

Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:33 pm

I agree with the side that wants to bring physics into the game I don't think boobs are realistic on armor made to protect you from random dragon attacks, Mages, magic traps etc.

Of course, if you want to "bring physics into it", none of the armors would likely protect against any of those things. Let's see:
Lightning? Metal armor conducts that stuff.
Fire (fireball, dragon breath, etc)? Again, metal armor heats up, so you'd keep taking damage from the fire long after it was gone. Plus the fur/cloth/leather bits would burn.
Ice? Hey, metal conducts super-freezing cold, too.
Physical attacks by massive creatures (giant's club, mammoth, dragon)? Don't care how strong your armor is, it and the spine holding it up would crumple like an accordian.


Fantasy games are inherently unrealistic and irrational, from a scientific point of view.


And, again - I'm fine with that. I'm happy playing an ideaized game (straight/white teeth; clean hair & skin; being able to take a sword blow without falling to the ground in crippling pain/getting infections that cost limbs/taking months to heal; men being bulging oiled muscleheads/women being curvy models) rather than a "realistic" one (rotting yellow teeth; grimy hair & pockmarked skin; possibly dying to any random dagger strike no matter how tough you are; people being sickly/ugly/etc).

Personally, I've never been much of a fan of "low fantasy" (scrabbling around in the dirt & mud, dealing with things like struggling to feed yourself and avoid scurvy & the pox... not nearly as interesting as heroic adventuring). And I've no interest whatsoever in a "medieval life sim". Nor, do I imagine, do most people outside European History departments at the university. :shrug:

:shrug:
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sexy zara
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:24 pm

Of course, if you want to "bring physics into it", none of the armors would likely protect against any of those things. Let's see:
Lightning? Metal armor conducts that stuff.
Actually, the Metal Armor provides a short-circuit to ground, while the padding insulates the wearer. Why RPGs can't get this right is beyond me.
Fire (fireball, dragon breath, etc)? Again, metal armor heats up, so you'd keep taking damage from the fire long after it was gone. Plus the fur/cloth/leather bits would burn.
Metal protects the padding from the exposure to the flame, and the padding diffuses the heat before it reaches the body.
Ice? Hey, metal conducts super-freezing cold, too.
The padding works like a Parka.
Physical attacks by massive creatures (giant's club, mammoth, dragon)? Don't care how strong your armor is, it and the spine holding it up would crumple like an accordian.
Heavier armor = more inertia, meaning it's harder to get you moving. Also, weight/impact distribution spread the force over a larger area, protecting against large impact. You could still get killed by full-body acceleration and deceleration, though.
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Guy Pearce
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:24 pm

The real problem is that most "heavy" armor was designed as much for showing off as it was for protection.
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Krystina Proietti
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:49 am

but...but ...

if they don't have them ...

where will the BOOBS go ...there I said boobs :P
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Amber Hubbard
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:54 pm

Why do people go on about over-exaggerating, impractical female armor when the Male armors are just as "bad"? However, "briast Plate" DOES NOT map to the crotch of male armor - It maps to those frikken huge shoulderpads that defy practicality but emphasize the broadness of the shoulders, and the helms like Iron and Horned Steel that emphasize the square jawline, and pectorals.

I'm not seeing any female armor that has a briast crevice that would threaten the sternum - any impact would be directed toward the sides of the armor or directly onto the shock-absorbing briast tissue first. Especially the female Ebony armor - looking at it, it doesn't have the traits it's been accused of having. Judging from the shape alone, it has sufficient padding because briasts aren't shaped like that.

That previously-linked piece of "real" briastplate is far more impractical because it exaggerates the size and crevice between the briasts. Ebony armor, in comparison, only exaggerates furthest half of the briast-space, leaving impacts against the base well-protected.

If anything, as a "shock absorber", the Female ebony armor is more effective than Male Ebony armor on a Female character - having a "flat" or rounded piece of plating that ignores female anatomy have a high chance of cracking the ribs by driving the physical mass of already-compressed briasts against the ribs without putting any offsetting pressure against the sternum or other half of the briastplate, allowing the ribs to flex the wrong way and crush inward as the ribcage checks out the "concave" look. In contrast, the female ebony armor takes the contours of the briasts into account, so that an impact against the chest has the entire force distributed along the entire surface area of the torso, instead of putting extreme pressure on the briasts only.

Lol, erm, briasts don't work like that.

Steel Plate in particular has a murder-plate. briasts and padding can't make up for the fact that briastplates shaped like that like that are inflexible and while a flat plate might allow briasts to absorb impact, a cerviced plate wouldn't. The impact would push the whole plate down and if a weapon strikes against that crevice, or across the briastplate, the groove will press down on the sternum. briasts aren't going to suddenly relocate to protect the sternum. If the woman falls, rolls up too tightly or ducks down hard, bad things will happen.

A flat plate would not usually squish boobs against the chest either, due to the padding between the armour and skin.
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gemma
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:28 pm

Lol, erm, briasts don't work like that.

Steel Plate in particular has a murder-plate. briasts and padding can't make up for the fact that briastplates shaped like that like that are inflexible and while a flat plate might allow briasts to absorb impact, a cerviced plate wouldn't. The impact would push the whole plate down and if a weapon strikes against that crevice, or across the briastplate, the groove will press down on the sternum. briasts aren't going to suddenly relocate to protect the sternum. If the woman falls, rolls up too tightly or ducks down hard, bad things will happen.
How would the plate even touch the sternum? Also, in the case of Ebony, the material's not flexible enough to allow the alleged "murder plate" to press against the sternum. By following the contours of the body, with evenly-spaced padding and rigid plating, it doesn't matter where you hit the plate - it's all evenly distributed over the entire surface. It would take an incredible force to depress the plate enough so that the Sternum was threatened - and even then, the briastplate hits the sides of the chest before the sternum.
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Hella Beast
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:01 pm

I have armour in my dungeo... I mean basemant... That belonged to a female in the middle ages. It has a same sized bulge in the briast area as it's corresponding male set that stands next to it. Inside it's a different story. There is much less padding around the chest, though there is no cleavage. The thinking is that large briasts soak up impact damage as well or better than the normal padding. It is after all the ribcage that the protection is for. Any soft tissue is irrelevant for the purposes of protection. Clearly this woman had briast large enough for this armour to need adjustments.

Another thing to note is that all the armour sets are very smooth. No decorative markings, no patterns. Nothing to seperate the armours from each other. They were designed to protect the occupants, not to look good. They are also much lighter than you'd think. Though I wouldn't want to wear them while climbing the hills.

Sadly, this armour was collected after a battle, and there is a rather large dent in the side under the armpit (where it is weakest) which indicates the woman didn't survive. Who she was is lost to time, but she was somebody of importance as it would have been very expensive to own at the time.
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Auguste Bartholdi
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:58 pm

You people know this business about female warriors cutting their boobs off for "practicality" is a complete myth derived from the old tales about the Amazons? It's a myth. How do you think the women fed their newborn children after that? And how often do you think ancient people could perform radical mastectomies without massive and fatal infection?

Total myth.
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Dalton Greynolds
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:01 pm

How would the plate even touch the sternum? Also, in the case of Ebony, the material's not flexible enough to allow the alleged "murder plate" to press against the sternum. By following the contours of the body, with evenly-spaced padding and rigid plating, it doesn't matter where you hit the plate - it's all evenly distributed over the entire surface. It would take an incredible force to depress the plate enough so that the Sternum was threatened - and even then, the briastplate hits the sides of the chest before the sternum.

An inflexible briastplate means that any impact is shared not delegated. If someone swings a sword across a woman's chest, the whole briastplate pushes down and retains its shape. It doesn't 'stop' if it hits briasts first because just as the cups push down, the crevice pushes down and it pushes down into the sternum. The briastplate has no give, so if a woman falls or ducks sharply, she's going to generate enough force on her own to shatter her sternum.

Smoother briastplates direct blows away from internal organs and allow the briasts to act as extra padding. There is no reason for boobplates.
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Kerri Lee
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:30 am


An inflexible briastplate means that any impact is shared not delegated. If someone swings a sword across a woman's chest, the whole briastplate pushes down and retains its shape. It doesn't 'stop' if it hits briasts first because just as the cups push down, the crevice pushes down and it pushes down into the sternum. The briastplate has no give, so if a woman falls or ducks sharply, she's going to generate enough force on her own to shatter her sternum.

Smoother briastplates direct blows away from internal organs and allow the briasts to act as extra padding. There is no reason for boobplates.

You have a point, but you're not entirely correct. As I've said before, the U.S. Army is working to develop body armor plates that will conform better to female soldiers' curves, making the armor less uncomfortable for their briasts.

That doesn't mean that they'll have visible, pronounced "armor boobs" showing through the vest, but it would mean some curvature to the inner surface. I understand that how you're imagining the interior of the female Steel Plate armor, the steel would have a more pronounced "dip" at the sternum, but it might not be that pronounced.

Anyway, I think given the overall fairly realistic appearance of most of the armors, the point about boob-armor is relatively moot compared to the aforementioned examples of (1) anime-chicks running around in six-kitten armor, and (2) western fantasy art depicting women in chainmail bikinis.
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Steph
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:16 pm

really? wait really? not practical? who gives a [censored] lol. The armor leaves too much to the imagination. Its TES, coverage does not matter just armor rating. Whether it be nothing but a ring with an armor rating of 200 or a bikini with an armor rating of 500 :P aesthetics over "practicality" its a friggen game.
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Kirsty Wood
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:58 am

another reason why i don't play females in games like this. guys look better in armor :biggrin:
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Lawrence Armijo
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:11 pm

That doesn't mean that they'll have visible, pronounced "armor boobs" showing through the vest, but it would mean some curvature to the inner surface. I understand that how you're imagining the interior of the female Steel Plate armor, the steel would have a more pronounced "dip" at the sternum, but it might not be that pronounced.

As I said above. The real world armour I have shows no shaping of the interior padding. It's flat like the mens. It is probable that the womans briast squished together into a single lump (Never has talking about boobies sounded less sixy) under both the weight and the tightning of the straps. Think about it for practical reasons, if you are hit by a hammer on the briastplate from the side, it will deform. Any bumps would cause all that energy to travel into the body at that point, either damaging the briast tissue, or transmitting it into the body. What you would want would be for the armour to move as unimpeded as possible for as long as possible, so that the energy would travel as long as possible through the outer armour and not through the body.

Or think of it this way, what is easier, sliding down a smooth railing, or sliding down stairs?
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Dawn Porter
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:34 pm

As I said above. The real world armour I have shows no shaping of the interior padding. It's flat like the mens. It is probable that the womans briast squished together into a single lump (Never has talking about boobies sounded less sixy) under both the weight and the tightning of the straps. Think about it for practical reasons, if you are hit by a hammer on the briastplate from the side, it will deform. Any bumps would cause all that energy to travel into the body at that point, either damaging the briast tissue, or transmitting it into the body. What you would want would be for the armour to move as unimpeded as possible for as long as possible, so that the energy would travel as long as possible through the outer armour and not through the body.

Or think of it this way, what is easier, sliding down a smooth railing, or sliding down stairs?

I get that, and nobody would want a pronounced ridge inside the armor between the boobs, because as you say, that ridge would be transferring the energy of a blow and concentrating it in that one spot. But some interior accomodation for women's briasts might not be completely uncalled for. As I say, modern body armor plates are now doing this, although I don't know to what extent.
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Marquis T
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:57 am

As I say, modern body armor plates are now doing this, although I don't know to what extent.

But then kevlar is far more forgiving on the dispersing energy front than steel and leather. Perhaps it is forgiving enough for comfort to become a factor. In Korea, I had what was called a "flak jacket". It was essentially scrap iron sewed into a kagool. Comfort was never a factor during any part of it's design. I didn't wear it for long.
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^~LIL B0NE5~^
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:40 pm

But then kevlar is far more forgiving on the dispersing energy front than steel and leather. Perhaps it is forgiving enough for comfort to become a factor. In Korea, I had what was called a "flak jacket". It was essentially scrap iron sewed into a kagool. Comfort was never a factor during any part of it's design. I didn't wear it for long.

And don't forget the ceramic plate they put into modern balistics armor. It abosrbs the impact by shattering locally. Again, as you said, very different from the old steel and leather armor.
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Christina Trayler
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:49 pm

But then kevlar is far more forgiving on the dispersing energy front than steel and leather. Perhaps it is forgiving enough for comfort to become a factor. In Korea, I had what was called a "flak jacket". It was essentially scrap iron sewed into a kagool. Comfort was never a factor during any part of it's design. I didn't wear it for long.

When were you in Korea? I was in the Army recently, went to Iraq twice.

I'm not talking about the kevlar pads in the body armor - they only stop small rounds, not rifle rounds. I'm talking about the hard plates. The kevlar pads go between the hard plates and the body, and provide a little padding. The hard plates are what they're talking about changing to fit women's bodies a little more comfortably. Never seen one modified for women, though.
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Irmacuba
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:57 pm

And don't forget the ceramic plate they put into modern balistics armor. It abosrbs the impact by shattering locally. Again, as you said, very different from the old steel and leather armor.

For impact hits, yeah, that's correct.
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FABIAN RUIZ
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:51 pm

Good points. I emphasise the main point I wanted to comment on too. No one complains about the exaggeratuons on the men that could easily catch a blade or spear point.
This has already been deconstructed thoroughly, no need to comment.

But that`s not the point because these things would not catch as much as people think. I also believe that in reality a woman`s boob armour section would be slightly less pronounced (but still there). I think a proud woman warrior would want to be seen as a WOMAN warrior.
And in battle, I wouldn't give a [censored] what I looked like if it meant I was more likely to DIE.

I believe it`s more about present day `political correctness` and embarassment from some girls about the body why they protest against such armour; nothing to do with it catching between the boob armour. A proud warrior woman of ancient times would not think that way. Just as a warrior male does not.
You keep saying things like this. I'm don't give a crap about political correctness, and it's insulting that you attribute these preferences to being "uncomfortable with the body." I love being a woman- and showing off one's curves is fantastic in the right time and place. Hard battle is not one of them. So when I see a woman dressed for a striptease who's supposed to be a warrior, I just think she's stupid, not sixy or feminine. I recognize that not everyone has this reaction to the chainmail bikini. For me, it seriously cuts down on the satisfaction of a female PC or seeing female warriors in-game.
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nath
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:46 pm

bah in TES they have magic shields which could work on bullets (I think)

it just vexes me that with all the crazy projectile weapons we have in the real world no one has even come close to inventing some sort of energy field/shield like the ones from Dune or startrek or stargate SG1 ..etc

:P yes I know its fiction and fantasy but so was flying to space and computers...
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lucile
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:57 pm

You people know this business about female warriors cutting their boobs off for "practicality" is a complete myth derived from the old tales about the Amazons? It's a myth. How do you think the women fed their newborn children after that? And how often do you think ancient people could perform radical mastectomies without massive and fatal infection?

Total myth.

ty god if it was true I would have had nightmares forever
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Brentleah Jeffs
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:29 pm

Let me just say on balance, and because people don't seem to get this or intentionally misunderstand- I think Bethesda did a good job of presenting a variety. Some people do like the boob plate. Judging from the Nexus, for a large subset of players, nipble rings and thongs suffice as female battle gear. Despite this, there are a couple pieces in the game which look like someone with a brain could have smithed them, and characters still look female in them. For that, I thank the designers.

It's just a bummer- a small one, but nonetheless- that some of the nicest looking, upper tier armors have the molded briasts.
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Eileen Müller
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:00 pm

The metal armour for females is stupid and impractical. It should be flat across and bigger than the male to fit the briasts but not define them at all.
You would'nt even notice a females briast size while she was wearing armour. A smaller briasted female would'nt even look like she had briasts. It has to be utiliterian basic shape created solely for protection and not looks. It would look like bullet proof armour does.

The tribal and leather etc makes sense. But none of the metal stuff does.

I spend a while looking at the Armour Of The Old Gods trying to work out how it stayed on. It somehow goes round her neck and not the back and does'nt slip.
That is some strong and well worked leather, lol.
But still it makes a flat shape at the front.
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Justin Hankins
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:00 pm

Its really awful, I can't use any of the plate armor sets because they look so awful and makes my female character look like shes having two giant bee stings on her chest. Only the steel armor (not plate) is halfway acceptable. Which is a shame because I love how most of the armor looks - besides the chest area.

See?

Realistic female armor: http://tinyurl.com/8yg3vzv

Female armor today: http://tinyurl.com/7lrqpek
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dean Cutler
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:13 pm

Anyone considered that the armor might be flat underneath and the briasts added on for aesthetic purposes?

For people arguing that aesthetics has no place on the battlefield, I hope you are also enraged enough to start a thread about the horned helmets. Someone gets a hold of one of those horns and they have total control of your head. Why do you think grabbing the facemask is illegal in football? Because they can take you to the ground and injure you very easily.
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Marine Arrègle
 
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