Since the issue is being defined by Gstaff as a being 'havok related' and the problem only affects NPC's...

With the issues of adding completely new custom animations (not simply replacers)... Could the problem perhaps be in the hkx files somewhere themselves that 'interact incorrectly' with the ground collision?

Just a random thought as I was reading through this thread after just reading the havoc convertor thread.

Hold on isn't it a 4x4 max area? Besides the point though, yeah I suppose in the case of already-developed large scale open worldspaces it's an unavoidable barrier. I meant more for people developing new worldspaces here and now. Athough yes I was indeed suggesting what you were saying - a 4x4 worldspace with LOD for distant lands.


Yeah I'd agree, in your case you've got the worldspace finished and if it's going to compromise a vision you've already put a lot of work into then you're better off with what you know will work. I guess it's just playing the waiting game in your case - just to get a better answer than "havok related" and a lot of speculation from us lot


That's my major worry with the dev kit. It's no longer just a PC game - the fact is the majority of their money is made from the console releases, and I just can't see them caring a huge amount about this particular issue. I mean they didn't even give the PC release a proper UI, I'm not holding out on them making bug fixes to what to them is essentially a complimentary toolkit. On the other hand they spent time getting it ready for us. On the OTHER other hand it apparently took them that long to release a tool with many broken features. I guess time will tell. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong.

Why would you need a 2x2 of playable with additional room for the outring of quads for LOD? Why not make a 4x4 of playable (Centered) area, then make the rest of the 16x16 quad outside (off center based on the 4x4 you're currently in) LOD land? That part would be broken, but it still LOOKS proper, and so long as the player can't get there they would never know and it would seem perfectly fine.

You could very well break your land into 16 4x4 quad areas and make it work, but that would be a HELL of a lot of work and a massive mess and would like triple the time the project would take, so... yeah, a fix would be great...

Sorry, maths were off. Silly time of the morning to try typing. A 4x4 grid with a further quad beyond for realistic distant land would require 16 landmasses of 8 grids square rather than one landmass of 16x16. A lot of work, a lot of memory, a lot of download. Basically a right royal mess from start to finish. Skyrim has lots of benefits but none of them, even combined, would make such a project worth taking from a game that can handle it very well indeed.

A fix is a must for large or extended worldspaces.

In the bethblog gstaff said that this is a limitation from havok, so maybe someone should contact Havok about this bug or at least why there is such a limitation on the x-axis. Maybe there is a way that they and beth could fix this issue.

http://www.havok.com

I don't have much faith for an respondance, but it's better than doing nothing.

Yet if they did fix it, it would be fantastic for their PR and they would make thousands of very very happy people which would inevitably lead to a boost of long term sales when the base game is old? Are you listening to this bethesda? Clearly you are as you're aware of the bug. So even if it is tricky to fix it would still be very much in their interest I would think for them to fix it. I'm pleased that they have acknowledged the fault, that's a very big start, but a less vague response would be even more appreciated?

What a [censored] response.

I think the designers probably think this, I bet the producers and publishers don't. I guess it depends if they've got any guys assigned specifically to the CK already.

I think if the producers and publishers arent focussing on this and the other bugs now then they are knocking nails in the coffin of the next game. Would you buy another car from a sales company with no after sales care? I wouldnt. I didnt buy a game, I bought a modding platform. I bought SI because Oblivion was a good modding platform. There's no way I will buy any addons for Skyrim if the basic platform is flawed.

Why does Sudden Strike 2d still outsell the 3d follow on? You cant mod the latter. It died.

Anyway this is off thread a bit so I am going to go into the game this evening and have a look at the nif properties of Oblivion NPC's and Skyrim. See if there is anything markedly different.

I didn't want to put it like this, but basically, yeah. What a vague non-answer. Come on Bethesda, almost all of us here are advlts with solid brains in our heads, not kids. We are your customers, please at least communicate with us in a clear way. What does this "but" mean? It's very bad style to intentionally keep us in the dark like this. At least state if you're still trying to fix this, or if this is scratched of the list.

Meaning what? Can we get a straight answer for once, please?


Either Bethesda can take responsibility for their games and included third party content, and fix this issue for one of the world's largest modding communities.


Or you can leave it in there, kill all possibility of large scale mods, and drastically cull the modding interest in Skyrim. It's up to you guys. "It's a Havok issue" is not a viable cop-out for ignoring it. If you really do recognize the important contributions modders provide to the popularity and longevity of your games, then please take a shot at getting this problem fixed. Please.

Isn't Sudden Strike a PC exclusive anyway? That's a whole different ball game mate, 100% of their sales are on PC. But yeah you're right it is a bit off-topic, I'd be interested to see your results regarding the nif properties.

Yes but modding is also PC exclusive too, so the anology is the same as Skyrim. Sudden Strike was a great game for its day, and could be easily modded. The game did very well indeed and still has a following. Sudden Strike three was just a muck up from start to finish. The after sales was ludicrous and poor, bugs were not fixed and the so called editor couldnt do much. It went into the bin. You can buy it but nobody plays it much. Skyrim has the danger of disappearing down the same "cant be bothered" bin. Lesson? There was no Sudden Strike 4, the company went belly up.

Oh yeah, what with all the PC sales Bethesda totally didn't get?

yeah good point.

Looking at the list of games that use Havock, one has to wonder about the validity of the claim that this "engine limitation" exists only on one half of one axis.

One half of the axis? Does that mean it's only buggered in one direction?

I think he meant one axis. you can go as far on the Y axis as you want just fine, it's just the X that's affected.

Just X beyond 64 cells is up buggerisation alley.

Gstaff, please help clear this up.

There's a lot of people out here who think this is a really important issue, and we would really appreciate a bit more attention paid to it. Thank you.

It did sound a bit like there's an aspiration to make mods available to consoles through Steam in the long run if possible - obviously creating mods remains a PC activity but if they can be played on consoles that could be huge.

Well this is a bummer, looks like they're not planning on fixing it.

From the http://www.bethblog.com/2012/02/21/send-us-your-creation-kit-skyrim-workshop-questions/#comments

Can someone working on one of these huge projects please generate a VERY large region (Try like 30x30 cells) and tell me if you can play your mod ingame? I think region generation is several damaged and that could also completely screw even the small of these large projects...

back to oblivion with MERP then

I've conveyed feedback to the team, but as noted previously, it's a Havok limitation and there's no plans for a fix.