Gamebreaking bug for worldspaces bigger than 4 quads in widt

Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:56 am

I appreciate the answer Gstaff and realise this is not your (singular or plural) decision, so no hard feelings.

But its a coincidence as just as you said there was no plans for a fix I conveyed the problem back to myself and decided there were no plans for another purchase of any Bethesda title until the fix is done. I'll do a video then of me dumping the Skyrim box in the wastebin, taking out my Oblivion box and sticking that one in the disk drive. Honestly, is that truly the end of it then? Cracking decision. :trophy: First prize in the shortsight of the year award Bethesda. :shakehead:

That'll cost yer.
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Daniel Lozano
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:50 am

I presume this bug won't be talked of again until they release the Quivering Peninsula expansion or something
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Taylah Illies
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:05 pm

I presume this bug won't be talked of again until they release the Quivering Peninsula expansion or something

Would you buy it sold as seen? I wouldnt.
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LADONA
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:18 am

I've conveyed feedback to the team, but as noted previously, it's a Havok limitation and there's no plans for a fix.

I think the phrase rhymes with 'clucking bell' ! ?
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Stephanie I
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:57 am

I think I just heard the crack of gunfire and a shout as someone cleaning their own rifle clutched their foot and swore. Youve got to laugh. We should throw a "told you so" party in a couple of years when the mod forum has less than ten people visiting it and Skrim is available on "white label" for £3.99

I mean honestly, how quick will it be until the postage stamp size land of Skyrim becomes dungeon filled and you trip over six quests just to get twenty feet down the road from Whiterun. Anyway I dont want to be a sour graqes type and spoil everyone else's party. It was a good game, but so far as Im bothered, as a modding plaftorm its too limited. Many people will just get on with things so good luck to all.

Back to the Oblivion forums then.
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Laura Wilson
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:39 am

I appreciate the answer Gstaff and realise this is not your (singular or plural) decision, so no hard feelings.

But its a coincidence as just as you said there was no plans for a fix I conveyed the problem back to myself and decided there were no plans for another purchase of any Bethesda title until the fix is done. I'll do a video then of me dumping the Skyrim box in the wastebin, taking out my Oblivion box and sticking that one in the disk drive. Honestly, is that truly the end of it then? Cracking decision. :trophy: First prize in the shortsight of the year award Bethesda. :shakehead:

That'll cost yer.
So... you aren't going to buy another Bethesda game because a limitation with a THIRD PARTY integrated program?
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Emily abigail Villarreal
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:40 pm

Well I always say that one of the hardest things about fixing a problem is not knowing what is causing the problem in the first place... ie/ diagnosing the problem. We now know where the problem lies so that's a start I suppose but..... who is clever enough to fix it? That's the big question. Clearly Bethesda are treating this problem like it's a red hot iron and barely dare speak its name, let alone touch it, so we now basically know there is no hope in that direction. So I guess we're on our own?
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Stacey Mason
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:16 am

Nope, because this one doesnt work for me and I wouldnt trust the next one as far as I could throw it, at least until its been tried and tested to see if it can provide what I want. Its not the third party program, its the way it was integrated. Anyway its a personal thing, all the best to those of you who can work around this, and maybe if a third party workaround comes about I'll make use of it, but I dont want to waste my time on a game that cant do what its predecessor did and where there is no will to fix it.

Lets not argue between each other Alex, we fought a good fight, today we lost a small battle, thats all.
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jessica sonny
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:58 am

Well I always say that one of the hardest things about fixing a problem is not knowing what is causing the problem in the first place... ie/ diagnosing the problem. We now know where the problem lies so that's a start I suppose but..... who is clever enough to fix it? That's the big question.

I think thats the size of it really. If a third party can come along and kick this thing into touch then brilliant. I would gladly pay for their time and effort (infact I think as a community we should be chipping in to help those doing the nifskope, max, blender plugins and moving things quicker) so I will keep an eye on things and see how they go. Clearly Bethesda are not going to (willing to) make the effort.

Its a great shame, but I suppose we have merely overcome one hurdle and blind alley in expecting Bethesda to sort this. Perhaps it had limited value for them to fix it anway, so we are at least clearer about things now. Its third party or no party basically. The main question now is, can this be fixed anyway?

I think we owe Gstaff a fair amount of thanks because we got an answer, which is more than many game companies would do. Its now a case of where do we go from here. We could have spent months waiting and waiting and working towards no good end, so its decent to have an answer so soon. I do appreciate that.
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megan gleeson
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:14 am

Has Bethesda considered contacting Havok then? Their software that you are using in your game is bugged, and the total package of the game (which includes modding and big landmass mods) has been harmed as a result. Bethesda should at least make Havok aware of the bug, because on itself such a bug is not acceptable. You bought broken middleware Bethesda!

Guys, what do you think of trying to contact Havok ourselves? I'm curious what their response will be (if any). I wouldn't be overly surprised if they throw the ball back to Bethesda, saying it's an implementation bug.
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vicki kitterman
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:46 pm

Has Bethesda considered contacting Havok then? Their software that you are using in your game is bugged, and the total package of the game (which includes modding and big landmass mods) has been harmed as a result. Bethesda should at least make Havok aware of the bug, because on itself such a bug is not acceptable. You bought broken middleware Bethesda!

Guys, what do you think of trying to contact Havok ourselves? I'm curious what their response will be (if any). I wouldn't be overly surprised if they throw the ball back to Bethesda, saying it's an implementation bug.
First of all, it's not a bug, they don't owe it to us to fix it or anything. Will you all stop acting like they just shot a bunch of puppies?

It's a software limitation, NOT a bug. They didn't buy broken software, they paid for software of which had limitations that exceeded the requirements of their game.

You can try contacting Havok but I doubt it would go anywhere...
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Becky Cox
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:11 am

I've conveyed feedback to the team, but as noted previously, it's a Havok limitation and there's no plans for a fix.

I honestly hope you guys at Bethesda realize what you are about to do here.....?

Declaring this the end of the road as far as this bug is concerned will leave Skyrim a 2nd rate product in less than a year. If you don't even try to address this problem (somehow), you've effectively killed off any interest in this game beyond the 1st or 2nd playthrough for the vast majority of people.
But what is even worse, you have seriously damaged the reputation of Bethesda, who seem to go out of their way to portray itself as a company that wants to listen to the player base and help the modding community as much as it can.
As far as I am concerned, you have a really serious credibility issue now.
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Charlotte Lloyd-Jones
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:43 am

Has Bethesda considered contacting Havok then? Their software that you are using in your game is bugged, and the total package of the game (which includes modding and big landmass mods) has been harmed as a result. Bethesda should at least make Havok aware of the bug, because on itself such a bug is not acceptable. You bought broken middleware Bethesda!

Guys, what do you think of trying to contact Havok ourselves? I'm curious what their response will be (if any). I wouldn't be overly surprised if they throw the ball back to Bethesda, saying it's an implementation bug.

Well we're in a no win situation it seems, so I see no harm in protesting our point until we're taken seriously? I think we deserve at least more than a 'it's a havok problem, so goodbye...' explanation.
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LittleMiss
 
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Post » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:40 pm

Has Bethesda considered contacting Havok then? Their software that you are using in your game is bugged, and the total package of the game (which includes modding and big landmass mods) has been harmed as a result. Bethesda should at least make Havok aware of the bug, because on itself such a bug is not acceptable. You bought broken middleware Bethesda!

Guys, what do you think of trying to contact Havok ourselves? I'm curious what their response will be (if any). I wouldn't be overly surprised if they throw the ball back to Bethesda, saying it's an implementation bug.

Can't hurt to try. At least it would be enlightening to hear if Havok actually agree that it is their problem..... :ermm:
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Ebony Lawson
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:17 am

First of all, it's not a bug, they don't owe it to us to fix it or anything. Will you all stop acting like they just shot a bunch of puppies?

It's a software limitation, NOT a bug. They didn't buy broken software, they paid for software of which had limitations that exceeded the requirements of their game.

You can try contacting Havok but I doubt it would go anywhere...

It IS a bug, it doesn't happen on the Y-axis so it's most likely an unintended limitation. That's a bug in my book. Just get out of the thread if you don't want to hear complaints, because they are going to be here, a LOT.
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Craig Martin
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:09 am

I think we have far too quickly sunk to the usual snapping at each other that comes with these kind of setbacks. I fell for it in the last thread and in my mid 40's should have grown out of that nonsense by now. We are all justifiably hacked off. I agree with both of you, I strongly suspect Havok will say its the way Bethesda implemented it. It worked perfectly well in Oblivion and there is probably a modicum of effort require to fix this. In all honesty I think we are flogging a dead horse trying to get Havok or Bethesda to do anything about this.

Some of us have stopped work on perfectly good Oblivion versions of our pet projects in the hope that Skyrim would be a step forward. We have just discovered that its all make up and no knickers. Ive met women like that, they get boring very quickly.

Skyrim came out all fancy pants and dressed up to the nines, kitted up in lingerie and an enticing wiggle. Oblivion got neglected, but guess what, she's still gorgeous and Skyrim has nasty nippy, stingy, bugs but its not willing to take the penicilin. I'm not going anywhere near Skyrim, its a mucky tart.

(now youre laughing)

Maegfaer, I agree entirely, we should go grass Bethesda up to Havok and have the MD of Havok phone their MD and say "Oi stop bad mouthing us mate, its the way you lot implemented it." fight fight fight. Its annoying to be fobbed off and given a right old story.

Seriously though, you're right we should push this further, but all joking aside, when the dust has settled I think we will all have to simply accept that Bethesda dont have the will to do anything about this. We were doing very well on Oblivion and the only major annoyance is my own fault. I stopped work on Mesogea about a year ago pending Skyrim in the expectation that it would be at least as capable. The sad fact is it isnt. Going back to Oblivion should be cause for celebration amongst us, weve got rid of a diversion that used to be called Skyrim. (plus weve learned a lot from it, Oblivion will develop in ways we previously didnt expect or plan for) New beginnings.
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Sarah MacLeod
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:46 am

I honestly hope you guys at Bethesda realize what you are about to do here.....?

Declaring this the end of the road as far as this bug is concerned will leave Skyrim a 2nd rate product in less than a year. If you don't even try to address this problem (somehow), you've effectively killed off any interest in this game beyond the 1st or 2nd playthrough for the vast majority of people.
But what is even worse, you have seriously damaged the reputation of Bethesda, who seem to go out of their way to portray itself as a company that wants to listen to the player base and help the modding community as much as it can.
As far as I am concerned, you have a really serious credibility issue now.
Lolwat? You act like every single person is just hanging on these new land mods just wasting their life away waiting for them to come out...

I wasn't around for Oblivion modding or the first chunk of Fallout 3, but I don't think any of these giant mods have every been officially finished or release, so while it wont help, it wont really hurt the community if they are never made.

Seriously people. It's a software limitation that they worked within, stop acting like they owe it to us.

The instant they pay us any attention you all take this for granted and act like they should listen to our every demand. Their needs come first. They are the developer. Without them, there is no game to mod.

By the divines, people!
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Amanda Leis
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:15 pm

Lolwat? You act like every single person is just hanging on these new land mods just wasting their life away waiting for them to come out...

I wasn't around for Oblivion modding or the first chunk of Fallout 3, but I don't think any of these giant mods have every been officially finished or release, so while it wont help, it wont really hurt the community if they are never made.

Seriously people. It's a software limitation that they worked within, stop acting like they owe it to us.

The instant they pay us any attention you all take this for granted and act like they should listen to our every demand. Their needs come first. They are the developer. Without them, there is no game to mod.

By the divines, people!

Alexander - you're clearly just another 17 year old f a n b o i, and nobody in this thread cares what you think. If this issue isn't important to you then leave it alone. You weren't even around when Oblivion came out and modding for it took off, so you have no real frame of reference here.

Don't get in the way of people who genuinly are upset about this. Don't be so arrogant as to think that your view is the only one with merit.

Now be quiet....
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Jarrett Willis
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:39 am

People Gamers shouldn't be afraid of their governments game producers. Governments Game producers should be afraid of their gamers.

Heh.

?We might not be entitled to a fix on this, but that doesn't mean we can't be more loud about how bad we want it?
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Laura Wilson
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:32 am

I am going to calm right down now. We have to be honest and appreciate that Gstaff posted a reply pretty quickly. We could have been ignored for weeks or months or fobbed off with "might be fixed" etc. Time is precious and I think its quite decent to have a comment from Beth saying, "Look, its in the too difficult box".

So where do we go from here? We can learn a lot from Skyrim. Its a good game for what it is, its just not a modding plaform I care for. There had to come the point of optimum moddability and for me it's Oblivion. I am quite excited now to be able to go back to the drawing board with Mesogea. My computer is stronger, players rigs are better, we can do better maps with third party software, download speeds are better, Skyrim has given us ideas, there is more modding kit available for Oblivion.

In some ways, today was a good day.
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Emma Parkinson
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:28 am

Going back to Oblivion is not an option for me, and at least several others in the MERP team who I spoke to have the same opinion (we haven't discussed this as a group though, not yet at least). Oblivion was great for it's time, but for me it won't do.
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Ezekiel Macallister
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:56 am

Alexander - you're clearly just another 17 year old f a n b o i, and nobody in this thread cares what you think. If this issue isn't important to you then leave it alone. You weren't even around when Oblivion came out and modding for it took off, so you have no real frame of reference here.

Don't get in the way of people who genuinly are upset about this. Don't be so arrogant as to think that your view is the only one with merit.

Now be quiet....
I was simply saying that I disagreed with the manner in which he spoke as he made it seem like if these large new land masses weren't finished that all hell would reign on the modding community.

And you say to consider other peoples view, then crassly slander mine?
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Marcin Tomkow
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:29 am

Agreed. We either lay down and take this up the pooper or we ensure that our projects carry on (in Oblivion, because its a lovely game when all is said and done, and now clearly the pinacle of what B are able to produce) meanwhile would you encourage others to buy Skyrim? Yeah right, for a fiver!

Well, I personally would see it as a loss to go back to Oblivion. It would be shame to have to leave Skyrim because of a bug...


@Alexander and Dagoroth: There's no point in arguing, that won't lead anywhere. If you have to keep going, please do so in a private chat.
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sexy zara
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:50 am

Lolwat? You act like every single person is just hanging on these new land mods just wasting their life away waiting for them to come out...

I wasn't around for Oblivion modding or the first chunk of Fallout 3, but I don't think any of these giant mods have every been officially finished or release, so while it wont help, it wont really hurt the community if they are never made.

Seriously people. It's a software limitation that they worked within, stop acting like they owe it to us.

The instant they pay us any attention you all take this for granted and act like they should listen to our every demand. Their needs come first. They are the developer. Without them, there is no game to mod.

By the divines, people!

But you could counter argue that a developer wouldn't be in business without their customers? Ok, for now everything's ok for them, but just imagine some new inspiring software developers came along and developed games which didn't kneecap their modding base?
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Luis Longoria
 
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Post » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:21 am

I don't know if this helps any, but you can http://www.havok.com/sales the Havok Physics and Animation engine for free. Would it be worth doing that and poking about? It might help for getting stuff exported from Max if nothing else... I'm not sure. This isn't my area of expertise.
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Chloé
 
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