The thing is, raw DPS doesn't really matter much in practice, when you're 1 shotting most things. Take a typical encounter in a dougr infested dungeon...

* I enter a room, 3 drougr wake and comes towards me. I use 1 sweeping strike, either taking out all 3 or just a couple. I use 1 power strike on the remaining drougr.
* Next room, there are 2 meelee and 1 ranged drougrs. I take out 2 with 1 sweep and take out the ranged with a sprinting power attack.
* Now I get to the boss room. about 8 drougrs spawn at once and surrounds me. I perform 2 sweep attacks covering 360 degrees which takes out most, if not all of them. I pick off the rest with a couple of power attacks.
* The boss then spawns. I perform 1 sprinting power attack to get close to him, followed by 2 standing power attacks. The boss bites the dust.

All the while I'm doing this, I'm blocking and power bashing any attacks coming my way, dealing even more damage and occasionally disarming enemies too.

So in this hypothetical 3 room dungeon with 15 enemies, I only need to perform about 10 attacks in total to clear the place out.

I'm not saying it will be faster or slower than DW in the same situation, but I don't see the huge DPS advantage everyone's talking about making a significant difference to the speed which I can clear out this dungeon. Like I said, DPS makes little difference when you can 1 shot most things in the game.

The only time I can see the DPS of DW making an impact is when fighting dragons and other uber bosses. Currently it probably take me about 4 power strikes to kill one, which is ~5-6 seconds? Maybe with DW that time will be cut down to 3-4 seconds. However, I'd be loosing the ability to kill 3 enemies with 1 hit, and that is far too big a sacrifice for me personally.

I prefer one handed so I can use a shield. I dont like two handed weapons and never have.

Well, in practice, the damage a two-handed deals is not much greater than what a one-handed weapon deals. However, the speed at which a one-handed weapon strikes, especially with the dual-wielding perks, is far greater. This means that for pure efficiency, if you're going for damage you'll want to go with dual-wielding. Enemies that can take more than a single hit will get one shotted by your power attacks and enemies that can't will get one shotted by your sped up attacks.

Take one of the Redoubt areas, for example, which are full of Forsworn who are all spread out. It will be far easier for someone dual-wielding to sprint to each individual Forsworn and one shot them. There could be 10+ enemies all spread out and dual-wielding will have an easier time moving from foe to foe and killing them all. If an enemy decides to block, boom, one shotted by a dual wielding power attack. In some cases, a power attack from a two-handed weapon will not one-shot someone who's blocking while a dual-wielding power attack will because of how it breaks block and continues to penetrate the enemy.

The only reason two-handed weapons even stay in the race is because there are not enemies which are sufficiently powered to take on the full onslaught of a dual-wielder. For example, there's nothing in the game that can take the sustained DPS of a dual-wielder who pops a level 3 Elemental Fury shout.

You can't really ignore the speed difference between one-handed weapons and two-handed weapons (Especially true with dual-wielded weapons with speed perks). You can't ignore the movement speed differences when striking with a one-handed weapon as opposed to a two-handed weapon. You can go from point A to point B to point C to point D far quicker while dual-wielding. Honestly, two-handed weapons struggle to keep up with damage from a one-handed weapon, let alone two one-handed weapons (dual-wielding).

Why you ask? The same reason why lower tier bows can out DPS Daedric bows. Speed is key. Nearly everything you one-shot with a two-handed weapon will be one-shotted by a one-handed weapon only faster. And if you have no concern for getting hit, dual-wielding is just better.

It's not like I hate two-handed weapons or have a bias against them. It's just that I'm not blind to the truth. I actually started out playing with two-handed weapons for a very long time until I saw that one-handed weapons were just superior in every way and were actually much more fun to play with. Pretty much what I'm getting from your posts is that you can use two-handed weapons. Yes, yes you can. You can also use Destruction magic. Doesn't make them as good as the competition... o.o...

From a gameplay perspective... there's just no reason for me to use two-handed weapons. While role playing wise I do prefer them, my enjoyment is severely stunted when I play with them so I let them go.

It's funny. I planned to use one handed and shield, or one handed and magic, but the game kept giving me two handed enchanted weapons at low levels so I kept using them and I find I like them better. I do use a one handed sword and shield for hunting souls for my soul gems though. I expect that may not last.

Are you sure about that? What truth is this that you talk about... Are you seriously saying that DW will be better in ANY situation?

All I'm saying is that 2H does have its advantages in some situations, and in others there is hardly any difference between 1H or 2H weapons.

Also I disagree with your statement that "You can go from point A to point B to point C to point D far quicker while dual-wielding." In both cases you'd probably be doing a sprinting power attack, and there isn't much difference between the time it takes to do one using 1H or 2H.

While 1H attacks are faster, so you can switch to your next enemy more quickly, 2H sweep, even though it's slower, may mean that you don't even need to switch to your next enemy because you've just killed them all with 1 attack.

Both have their advantages and it's very situational which one comes out on top.

One-Handed although I don't use shields, either a spell or dw. One-Handed is much more versatile.

Yes, I'm saying that dual-wielding is better in 9 out of 10 situations. The only advantage two-handed has is the sweep perk and that's it. Nothing else. That's situational. Sure, you can force it, but by the time you're forcing the situation a dual-wielder would have moved on to the next three areas.

Furthermore, everything is sped up with the dual-wielding perks. Including sprinting power attacks. It's faster than a two-handed sprinting power attack to begin with and it only gets even faster. Furthermore, you don't even need to do a sprinting power attack. You can easily do a sprinting strike, which again, is faster than anything a two-handed weapon can dish out and it costs no stamina.

When the only thing a two-handed weapon has going for it is a side power attack that can attack multiple enemies... well, you know something is wrong. I mean at this point you're just ignoring all the facts that I have stated and blindly defending two-handed weapons.

I'm not defending any weapon in particular at all... If everyone is saying that 2H weapons are better than DW, I'd be posting about the advantages of DW. All I am saying is that 2H and DW are more balanced than what people may think, and that in some situations 2H will be better than DW and vice versa.

Also, I'm not ignoring facts. I know DW has a faster striking animation, which means each 1 on 1 encounter may be over slightly sooner using DW. However, whenever you encounter more than 1 melee enemy at once, that's when 2H can claw back some of the time advantage it has lost. The more melee enemies you encounter at once, the more 2H comes out on top.

In my experience, I would say that roughly half of all encounters in dungeons involve more than 1 melee opponent. That's a lot of situations when the sweep perk will come in useful, giving you a chance to do double, triple or quadruple your normal DPS. This IMO does make up for the couple of seconds you've lost whilst fighting 1 on 1 or ranged opponents. I don't see how one can say that DW is far superior as some kind of fact.

This isn't even considering the blocking/power bashing/disarm abilities you get with a 2H....

Like I said, you're avoiding the facts that I've been stating. Was I referring to my statement that dual-wielding is far superior to two-handed weaponry? No. I'm talking about the cold hard facts. I mean give me a list of pros for two-handed weaponry so I can be humored a bit. Here, I'll give my try at it:

Two-handed Weaponry:
* Can hit multiple opponents with the very slow side power attacks provided they have the sweep perk

Okay, I'm done. You're not taking into account speed. Yes, you can hit multiple enemies, but it's still with a very slow power attack. There's not much situations in the game where you'll be getting a DPS advantage over dual-wielding with such a slow power attack. Blocking, power bashing, and disarm abilities have nothing to do with DPS and they're mediocre when compared to someone using a sword and board. Well, power bashing in general is mediocre and the chance to disarm is also mediocre.

(Power bashing takes far too long to execute and disarm is chance based and requires a Power Bash which is time better spent eliminating your opponent).

I've always preffered sword and shield, every Elder scrolls game i have played my character has had that.

But this character I have as my main has a 2-handed weapon. Although, the rougue I have currently created is going to be sword and shield.

I find this amusing. Even in my post that you actually quoted I said that DW is faster than 2H... Makes me wonder if you actually read any of my posts.

I also said in the same paragraph that the DPS boost you gain from multiple hits with sweep makes up for the disadvantage in speed. How much it makes up for depends on how many multiple enemy encounters you get into. I also said that in my personal experience roughly 50% of my encounters involve more than 1 melee enemy, which means I can take advantage of sweep a lot, and I do. It's the default attack I perform when faced with more than 1 enemy in close proximity. It's not just another perk that gets used some times, it's actually my main attack, and it's hugely powerful.

But now I'm starting to repeat myself, and I don't know why I need to...


You are right, it has nothing to do with DPS, which is why I said I did not consider them. However, I completely disagree with the bolded statement. A power bash with a 2H takes less than half a second and is easily executed when you have the quick reflexes perk. It also blocks the damage of the incoming power attack whilst doing decent damage in return and staggers your opponent. Without it you'd kill the enemy quicker but also take a power hit in the process. So useful non the less even if it doesn't affect DPS.

One-handed weapon w/shield (love shield bash) or dual-wielding swords/daggers.

That's funny because I was thinking the same thing about you. Yes, you acknowledged that dual-wielding is faster, however, your acknowledgement doesn't stretch into proper application of said speed. That's why I stated that you're not taking into account speed. It has nothing to do with not reading your post. Herp derp. o.O


I'm repeating myself quite a bit because what I'm saying is not getting through. You're all like, herp derp I can sweep attackz multiplz enemiez y0! I get it, you can hit multiple enemies in a single power attack. Re-read through my posts and see why that isn't the be end all of DPS. It's not even DPS, but rather high cone burst damage.


You can tell someone doesn't know what they're talking about when they suggest you power bash an opponent during a Quick Reflexes trigger... REALLY!? LOL! FYI, you can move while Quick Reflexes is applied/triggered. FYI, you move at normal speed, everything else does not. FYI, bashing an opponent (Power bash or otherwise) while they're attacking does not stagger them and it only does a puny interrupt animation that lasts for very little time. FYI, it's better to dodge the power attack and counter attack than sit there and power bash a power attack that triggers Quick Reflexes. A power bash that does puny damage in comparison to weapon damage.

I think my issue here is that I'm trying to argue efficiency with someone who thinks that it's efficient to power bash an opponent during a Quick Reflexes trigger. I mean come on... LOL! In any case, you provided no pros list for two-handed weaponry presumably because I covered it all further proving what I've been debating thus far.

one handed with spell breaker shield ftw........

dual-wielding for me by using Windshear on my off-hand...as dual-wield itself is designed to be unstoppable force yet lack of defense mechanism,that's where windshear comes...

now i can "bash" with 100% chance stagger on ANY enemies without having worry about losing my stamina,hehehe

I really like the sword & shield style, the thing is, you need to gimp yourself (no smithing/enchanting/etc...) in order on have fun with it, because later on, you are just so strong and resistant that you won't ever find the need to block anymore, be either for melee attacks or spells.
And I'm not gonna gimp my characters for that.

The fighting stances gameplay offered in Skyrim are fun and viable but, unlike games like Blade of Darkness or Dark Souls where the challenge is always constant, you just get way too strong to even care about it anymore.

I prefer 2-handers, and most of my perks have gone into it so far. Occasionally I may switch, depending on if I get a batter 1-hander, but for the most part, I rock the 2-hander and the occasional bow during a dragon fight, until it lands.

I can't really be bothered replying to your posts any more if you're going to drag it down the path of pathetic childish insults. I've stated my opinions on the matter and backed them up with logical examples. Anyone with an ounce of sense can read it and come to their own conclusions without having to read through someone trying their hardest to put down every post I've written.


I don't even know what this rambling is about... it completely misses the point. Why does it matter what I choose to do during a quick reflexes trigger when you can't even trigger it with DW? My point was that there are also a lot of very useful skills in the block tree that a 2H user can benefit from and a DW will miss out on.

Again, for the very last time, all I am saying is that the ability to sweep with a 2H weapon should not be underestimated and is devastating when used in some situations, and will go some way into making up for the loss in attack speed and DPS compared to DW on individual opponents.

Two handed does not necessarily imply no blocking. Blocking and bash perks work when blocking with weapons as well as shields.

So in other words you have nothing to add and are trying to save face by using ad-hominem on my character. Okey dokey good sir!


Like a lawyer would say, it goes to state of mind and questions credibility on efficiency.


Which means absolutely nothing when it comes to DPS which we are discussing. Quick Reflexes is mainly a defensive skill short of multiple enemies doing it at near the same time making it last an eternity. But even then a one-handed build will clean house far quicker than a two-handed build under the same Quick Reflexes circumstances.


I disagree heavily and you lost credibility on this subject when you stated that you power bash during Quick Reflexes. I mean with your logic, Destruction magic should be beast because you can attack any enemy within a 15 foot radius. Things just don't work that way sir, they just don't.

I love both dual wielding and two handed weapons.

Two handed weapons are slower, however, this doesn't mean they are worse off for it. It is much easier to land an attack on a moving enemy in range when your power attack is slow, by giving you time to adjust your angle. Block runner works with two handed weapons as well. This will allow you to run circles around your enemies during a quick reflexes time slow, just like a shield user would. Great critical charge out right kills lower level enemies and helps mobility. ALSO two handed weapons have a higher chance to stagger enemies by power attacking compared to one handed users if said enemies are blocking or not.


Ok well, the first perk in the block tree, 20% block, is fine for two handed users on master, especially considering after quick reflexes and even block runner, attacks will simply be dodged anyway. Why do you need that much block with your shield? I'll never understand.

Heck you can even use Shield Charge with a two hander is you block right before impact.

As far as end game damage numbers are concerned, when we're talking weapons that do over 300 damage, 1h or 2h it really really really won't matter what your using by then as every single enemy will fall within seconds. So in the beginning of the game, two handed users have it really nice due to higher damage, paired with more staggering attacks and toward end game you just kill more and more enemies with 1 hit with great critical charge.

I am using dual weapons at the moment and I won't go into why their awesome. That's been covered.

I way prefer one handed weapons, but I've maxed out the one handed skill and to finally get to level 50 i switched to two handed to the skill would go up.

Yeah, I know, but like I said, I didn't understand how overpowed the master sneak perk would be until after I took the perk. I thought it would just stop combat for a second and make it easier to disappear into the shadows. I did not know that it would let me execute a quick dagger strike for the 15x bonus whenever I wanted to until quite a while after I took the perk.

I try not to use it too much but just knowing its there changes the way I feel about the game. Before I would be very tense when sneaking up on a boss in a room full of hostiles because I knew if I didn't get the sneak damage I would have a tough fight on my hands that I might not survive. Now it doesn't really matter if they notice me or not because I can always get the sneak damage and drop the boss quickly, even if detected and then taking out the rest of the room only takes a few quick well-placed dagger strikes. Just knowing that I have that power, even if I choose not to use it changes the whole dynamic of the game.

My first run through I went 2 handed because in all the previous games and othe RPG's i usually go sword and board. So i wanted to try something different. Right now im going through with sword and board. Anyway, here's my 2 cents on the subject:

Two handed:

* Pros
- Has nice weapon reach.
- Is great when weapon swapping to a bow. You don't have to re equip two different items when switching back
- Sweep is awesome.
- probably the most versitile single item you can have. You can block, bash, and kill with it.
- Good front loaded damage.

* Cons
- Poorer defence/block when compared to a shield user.
- Elemental defense, or lack there of. I found myself a potion swilling noob with some of the named dragons. I know enchantment is an answer to this, i just never got into it.
- Poor selection of unique weapons.


As for sword and board:
*Pros
- shield has much more verstility in skyrim then in previous games. It's both offense and defence
- Elemental protection perk.
- Greater selection of unique weapons.
- Finishing moves are, i think, cooler then two handed. It's like the devs put a little bit of the movies Gladiator and Troy into it.
- Greater degree of protection (obviously)

*cons
- No AOE like sweep.
- Less front loaded damage when compared to two handed.
- less weapon reach.

Yeah its been known for quite a while that DW does more dps, but the game is so easy (w/out mods) that at a certain point (IMO) that doesn't even matter.

So I personally don't mind sacrificing some dps for an aoe attack, blocking, and better power/attack mobility + reach (compared to DW power/attack).



Like I said before I've tried both, and for me personally two-hand simply flowed far better, and wasn't half as clunky. I really want some combat mods that smooth out DW, such as dw attack movement, and being able to do left/strike attacks whenever I want (independent of each other, like spells).